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Mapping Former TWHS

 
 
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Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#106 | Posted: 22 Jun 2018 03:44 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
Assif:
Re: Royal Village of Bakuba
Solivagant, you are right, I copied the wrong coordinates. The right ones are here:
-4.531097, 21.349525
It says Mushenge on Google Maps and fits the geographic location you described.

I've mildly offset it to -4.530118, 21.334501 as that is an actual village. I can't see anything recognisable though from the photos on Solivagant's link.

Solivagant:
Here - https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Cam%25C3%25AD_de_Cavalls&prev=search
But what to use as coordinates as it circles the entire island??

I've chosen (slightly at random) four locations at cardinal points. There is a nice interactive map here. It may not be a WHS but it looks like a lovely walking holiday.

Just about to do the Philippines and Baleric sites

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#107 | Posted: 22 Jun 2018 04:12 | Edited by: Solivagant 
meltwaterfalls:
I've mildly offset it to -4.530118, 21.334501 as that is an actual village. I can't see anything recognisable though from the photos

WRONG "Village" (it is Mingetshi I think on the map I linked to above) - use the coordinates I gave at -4.521239, 21.312361 - that is a "TOWN" 3kms further West!!

We have visited the "Palaces" of Chiefs in Burkina Faso, Togo, Ethiopia etc and the reality is always somewhat less than the vision conjured up by the word - don't expect to see Versailles!

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#108 | Posted: 22 Jun 2018 05:14 
Solivagant:
WRONG "Village" (it is Mingetshi I think on the map I linked to above) - use the coordinates I gave at -4.521239, 21.312361 - that is a "TOWN" 3kms further West!!

Great find, I was umming and ahhing as to which was the best settlement to choose

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#109 | Posted: 22 Jun 2018 10:27 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
Down to the final 7

meltwaterfalls:
Burkina Faso Niangouri
Cameroon Cases-obus de Karsiki
Congo (Democratic Republic) Bunzi Sanctuary
Madagascar Complex Defensif de la Cote Est Malagasy
Syria Carqabis
Syria Sarjaleh
Tunisia Site de Ben Jasla

I'm looking into that Spanish wine Route one, the last batch I did were all non defined Spanish "routes". Sadly the wayback machine doesn't have anything before 2007 so a lot of the Spanish sites dropped off before we had a full list of sites (if there was one).

For the Ephemeral Art associated with Corpus Christi Fiestas in Catilla-la Mancha I just added Elche de la Sierra, famous for its sawdust carpets and Toledo Cathedral as this is where the most famous Monstrance is held year round, if anyone has a better idea let me know (I don't think it was put forward to the right strand seems to be more of an intangible heritage proposal).

Updated map

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#110 | Posted: 22 Jun 2018 13:44 | Edited by: Solivagant 
meltwaterfalls:
Down to the final 10.

Great - we will have to work on the remainder!

Just a minor point. You have continued with the "convention" established on this Web site of calling the placing of a site on the T List as "Submitted" and its removal as "Withdrawn".
Assif and I had some comments and proposals about this a few months ago but either Els didn't see them or they got lost among a number of other matters or she didn't accept or understand the proposals!! See - https://www.worldheritagesite.org/forums/index.php?action=vthread&forum=3&topic=2094& page=11#msg18344
The use of "Submitted" and "Withdrawn"for T List stages creates potential confusion with the same words being used (and more "correctly"!) in relation to the Nomination/Inscription process as well. A nomination is "submitted" to UNESCO and may be "withdrawn". But T List sites aren't really "submitted" and "withdrawn" - they are just "Added" and "Removed"!
Because a site's "history" covers its both its T List and its Nomination/inscription history the least ambiguous option would be to make it absolutely clear by calling the first stage
"Added to T List" and for our Former T List sites - "Removed from T List".

Author Assif
Partaker
#111 | Posted: 22 Jun 2018 13:44 
meltwaterfalls:
Sadly the wayback machine doesn't have anything before 2007 so a lot of the Spanish sites dropped off before we had a full list of sites (if there was one).

This FTWHS was on as late as 2018 (2017?) and did not include any specific locations. Looking at the wayback machine version almost all metropolitan Spanish regions were a part of it, which means Spain had no very specific concept as to how this nomination should be pursued.

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#112 | Posted: 22 Jun 2018 14:15 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
Solivagant:
Just a minor point. You have continued with the "convention" established on this Web site of calling the placing of a site on the T List as "Submitted" and its removal as "Withdrawn

It wasn't really a conscious decision. I just copied the data from this site, so it retained that usage.

I'm with you on the usage and potential confusion so have amended it.

Assif:
This FTWHS was on as late as 2018 (2017?) and did not include any specific locations.

Apologies, my clunky wording, I had the page for the wine route and I just had a little bit of fun picking out relevant areas across the country. I was referring to the the other routes which all dropped off a few months before the archive kicked in, but reading it back that isn't what it looks like.

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#113 | Posted: 22 Jun 2018 14:36 | Edited by: Solivagant 
meltwaterfalls:
Burkina Faso Niangouri

Have found a reference to this in this World Bank document from 1993 (Used already to help on Congo)
http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/133031468768325927/pdf/multi-page.pdf

"Archaeological sites - Aribinda-1( settlement remains - pottery center); Banfora; Borodougou;
Doulassoba; Fara; Kankielou; Koro (villages); Lorepeni (ruins); Logofiela; Mengao-95
(settlement ruins), excavated 1961/62 by Schweeger-Hefel; Nabu; Niangouri; Oyono-109( Lobi
stone ruins w/copper objects), excavated 1931 by Labouret; Sanembulsi (Zani): Sindou; Sya;
Tou-164 (tell), excavated 1962 by Schweeger-Hefel"


So - we at least know that Niangouri is an Archaeological site in Burkina Faso!!! Now the problem is to find a better reference to it!

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#114 | Posted: 22 Jun 2018 14:46 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
I've found Site de Ben Jasla Tunisia.
It is some sort of rock cut necropolis it seems. Will hunt down the specifics now.

Oh that one has been niggling me for weeks. Very satisfying to crack it.

Author Colvin
Partaker
#115 | Posted: 22 Jun 2018 23:10 
meltwaterfalls:
I've found Site de Ben Jasla Tunisia.

Great find! I was considering contacting some Tunisian tour operators to see if they'd heard of it, but it looks like you have an answer!

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#116 | Posted: 23 Jun 2018 02:48 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Solivagant:
So - we at least know that Niangouri is an Archaeological site in Burkina Faso!!! Now the problem is to find a better reference to it!

Have failed to find anything more on this. As well as the more obvious searches on its name and using both "Burkina Faso" and "Upper Volta" - which may well have been the name at the time of any excavations.
a. It isn't included in the Wiki "List of Archaeological sites of Burkina Faso" (BF) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Archaeological_sites_in_Burkina_Faso
b. It isn't referred to in the Nomination file of Loropeni which contains a bibliography of books/article on BF archaeology
c. It isn't mentioned in my Bradt guide to BF
d. It isn't mentioned in any general article about Archaeology in BF - https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=archaeology+in+Burkina+Faso&oq=archaeology+in+Burki na+Faso&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60l3.6200j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
e. It isn't mentioned in any article about the archaeologists who have operated in BF. And all current excavation/interest in BF seems to be elsewhere.
f. I have tried alternative spellings. It might (or might not!) be significant that 2 tribal groups in BF are the "Nyanyose" (or Nyanyosse) and the "Gourounsi" (Compare with the name of this site = "Niangouri") so at least an alternative spelling of "Nyangouri" seems possible.

Author Assif
Partaker
#117 | Posted: 23 Jun 2018 15:24 | Edited by: Assif 
I have just noticed Thessaloniki is still missing on the map. We have it as a FTWHS:
https://www.worldheritagesite.org/tentative/former/id/9174

Choirokoitia has been inscribed so should not appear. Only the Tenta subsite of the original TWHS should appear as it was not inscribed.

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#118 | Posted: 24 Jun 2018 03:28 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
Assif:
I have just noticed Thessaloniki is still missing on the map. We have it as a FTWHS:

Thanks for picking that up. It is there, but I must have copied over it with the co-ordinates from Santorini, will correct it.

Choirokoitia knocked off as well.

Author jonathanfr
Partaker
#119 | Posted: 24 Jun 2018 10:03 
The sites of the connection "Reduced from broader TWHS" could perhaps be considered in our mapping, for example concerning "The Architectural Work of Le Corbusier" 4 elements were not retained (Maison Cook, Cité de refuge de l`Armée du salut, Pavillon suisse à la Cité Universitaire, Maisons Jaoul).
We already have coordinates in documents such as http://whc.unesco.org/archive/2009/whc09-33com-8Bf.pdf

Author elsslots
Admin
#120 | Posted: 24 Jun 2018 11:37 
Solivagant:
"Added" and "Removed"!

I will change it!

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