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Mapping Former TWHS

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Author Solivagant
#46 | Posted: 6 Jun 2018 07:41 | Edited by: Solivagant 
in the land of the Kapsiki or the land of the Mousgoum???
I would go with the Kapsiki as the name suggests.

I have had further look at this
a. The original T List document for Cameroon from 1987 is at
b. This describes the T List site as "Habitats en cases-obus de KARSIKI pres du parc national de WASA (a delimiter)" (Capitals from the original)
c. Waza PN is a fair distance from the "centre" of Kapsiki homelands at Rhumsiki (around 250kms) -it is only c 100kms from the Cases-Obus of the Mousgoum however
d. Bradt Cameroon says of Waza NP - "Waza.... (has) a whole hotch-potch of peoples including Choa, Moundang, Toupouri, Mafa, Kapsiki and Mousgoum".
e. Points b and d would seem to indicate that there is no need to look in the Kapsiki heartlands for this Former TWHS - instead we should be looking "around" the Waza NP area.
f. In conclusion I am still no clearer as to where to locate the coordinates for this Former TWHS! And it would seem from the comment regarding "A delimiter" neither was Cameroun!!!! It could be of course that the bureaucrats down in Yaounde know absolutely B........ All about Northern Cameroon and, possibly, a bit like some UK MPs from the South of England know and care nothing about the North of England, regarded it all as "up there" somewhere around Waza NP! That also would explain why they couldn't even get the name of one of their own peoples correct!!!

Author Solivagant
#47 | Posted: 6 Jun 2018 08:55 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Mozambique Africa Gorongosa Region -18.814034, 34.495899
Mozambique Africa Great Inselberg Archipelago of N Mozambique
Inselbergs constitute a natural "archipelago" because like islands they harbour biota separated by space which that biota can't live in - the title might be referring to that. Mozambique has many Inselbergs but I am not sure which might have constituted this TWHS. Another complexity is that the Quirimba Archipelago NP also contains numerous Inselbergs (and is on Mozambique's current T List) . Leave open for the moment - unless someone knows the answer!!
Mozambique Africa Riane Rock Paintings -13.729817, 40.150924

Author Solivagant
#48 | Posted: 6 Jun 2018 10:49 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Nigeria Africa Abuja (New Capital) 9.067572, 7.509809
Nigeria Africa Birni Gazargamu and Gambaru
Birni Gazargamu 13.047432, 12.227716
Gamburu 12.366666, 14.2166666
Nigeria Africa Kainji Lake National Park 9.971256, 4.149951
Nigeria Africa Museum of Traditional Nigerian Architecture Jos 9.913540, 8.884730

Birnin Ngazargamu – "the last headquarters of the Kanem Borno Empire under the 'Mai' Dynasty ...... the ruins of the ancient city which was the capital of Kanem Borno Empire between 1460 and 1809 are still visible in its site." u+and+Gambaru&source=bl&ots=LKaaQWJXR-&sig=C7HnVKiIB-dwSUovvV9PuD3nDck&hl=en&sa=X&ved =0ahUKEwj_v7aQnr_bAhWLJcAKHe2ECSkQ6AEIODAE#v=onepage&q=Birni%20Gazargamu%20and%20Gamb aru&f=false

Gazargamo "... Situated 150 km west of Lake Chad in the Yobe State of modern Nigeria, the impressive remains of the former capital city are still visible. The surrounding wall is 6.6 km long and in parts it is still up to 5 m high". - (coordinates on this wiki page - checked as correct -clearly shows a walled compound)

Gambaru – "Wall of the Mais summer palace on the (River) Komadugu at Gamburu (Built C1570-80)"

Author vantcj1
#49 | Posted: 6 Jun 2018 12:01 
For your possible future use vantcj

Yeah, many thanks for the suggestion.

Yesterday I consulted the Google Maps help and it advised me to use Google Earth to get the coordinates. However, the site markers in Google Earth only retrieve the location on degrees, minutes and seconds.

Therefore I had to look for a program online that could help me to convert the data to decimal format...and I only got satisfied with the result until the fourth program that I used The others were inaccurate when testing on Google Earth the value that they retrieved...or didn't accept the imput of the seconds in the format that Google Earth provided.

Then I could finally proceed with all the other sites, always testing the converted value for correctness.

However, the suggestion that you give is much easier, I will use it from now on.

Author vantcj1
#50 | Posted: 6 Jun 2018 12:58 
I just thought that there is a possibility of the "Extended from original TWHS" connection for the Guanacaste Conservation Area WHS. The Santa Rosa historic mansion (or Casona de Santa Rosa in Spanish) is located inside the Santa Rosa National Park, one of the components of the Guanacaste serial WH site. Certainly Guanacaste CA is a fully natural WHS, and Santa Rosa historic mansion was the proposal for a cultural site...but maybe the connection is applicable.

There is also a possible "Sieges and Battles" connection for Guanacaste WHS. Santa Rosa historic mansion was the site of battles in 1856, 1919 and 1955, but the most important was during the 1856-1857 National Campaign against the "Filibusteros", a group of mercenaries from the US and Europe that believed in the doctrine of the "Manifest Destiny" and after taking power in Nicaragua, intented to establish an English-speaking slavery state in all of Central America, very much on the style of the Southern US states. After their victory, the Costa Rican army proceeded to attack the city of Rivas, in Nicaragua. Source:

Author Assif
#51 | Posted: 6 Jun 2018 14:22 | Edited by: Assif 
Another complexity is that the Quirimba Archipelago NP also contains numerous Inselbergs (and is on Mozambique's current T List) .

As Quirimba NP includes many Inselbergs and is in the far north of Mozambique I guess the FTWHS is either identical with it or at least included it. As we have no further information I would go for the first. This would mean that there is no FTWHS here.

Author Assif
#52 | Posted: 6 Jun 2018 14:37 
@meltwaterfalls I have just seen that Nan Madol appears on the map although it is a WHS. I would suggest that in cases in which some locations were nominated and others not, only the missing ones should appear on the map of FTWHS.

Author Solivagant
#53 | Posted: 6 Jun 2018 16:38 | Edited by: Solivagant 
As we have no further information I would go for the first. This would mean that there is no FTWHS here.

Yes I think we have here a continuous T List entry for "Quirimba" probably covering different intended boundaries and etc under different names across 3 different Mozambique T Lists
a. 1990 Great Inselberg Archipelago of N Mozambique
b. 1997 Quirimba archipelago and Ibo island
c. 2008 The Quirimbas Archipelago
So - not a Former TWHS

Author meltwaterfalls
#54 | Posted: 6 Jun 2018 16:45 
Thanks Solivagant, I've updated the one you put forward today, and have used Quirimba NP as a place holder for the Inselbergs propossal, but happy to amend inf more info comes to light.

I would suggest that in cases in which some locations were nominated and others not, only the missing ones should appear on the map of FTWHS.

Have done that, same with Sale and Chellah in Morocco (dropping the Chellah aspect)

On a similar bent I got rid of Birka and Hovgarden from the Swedish locations

Author meltwaterfalls
#55 | Posted: 6 Jun 2018 17:38 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
These are the ones missing co-ordinates at the moment, 211 left.
Burkina Faso Africa Niangouri
Cameroon Africa Cases-obus de Karsiki
China Asia Dule Temple
China Asia Extension Project of Ancient Villages in South Anhui Province: Tangyue, Likeng and Wangkou village
China Asia Extension Project of Temple and Cemetery of Confucius and the Kong Family Mansion in Qufu: Temple of Confucius at Nishan
China Asia Huangguoshu Waterfalls
China Asia Jixian - conservation area of Mid/Upper Proterozoic
China Asia Kaiyuan Temple Pagoda of Dingzhou City
China Asia Pagoda, Library Caves and Stone Tablets of sutra of Yunju Temple
China Asia Putuo Mountain Scenic Resort
China Asia Shanxi Businessmen's Courtyard Houses
China Asia Site of Ancient Copper Mine: Site of Ancient Copper Mine in Tongling
China Asia Site of the Qi State Capital and the Mausoleum of King of the Qi State at Linzi
China Asia The Forest of Steles in Xian
China Asia Tonglushan Ancient Copper Mine Sites
China Asia Yongle Palace
Congo (Democratic Republic) Africa Bunzi Sanctuary
Congo (Democratic Republic) Africa Kundelungu Park
Congo (Democratic Republic) Africa Maiko park
Congo (Democratic Republic) Africa Manbetu court
Congo (Democratic Republic) Africa Mbanga-Ngungu Caves
Congo (Democratic Republic) Africa Royal village of Bakuba
Congo (Republic) Africa Archaeological Site of Bittori
Congo (Republic) Africa Church of Lounzolo
Congo (Republic) Africa Diosso Groge and associated habitats
Congo (Republic) Africa Ma-Loango Royal Palace
Congo (Republic) Africa St. Anne du Congo Basilica
Indonesia Asia Banten Ancient City
Indonesia Asia Belgica Fort
Indonesia Asia Besakih
Indonesia Asia Elephant Cave
Indonesia Asia Great Mosque of Demak
Indonesia Asia Gunongan Historical Park
Indonesia Asia Lore Lindu NP
Indonesia Asia Ngada traditional house and megalithic complex
Indonesia Asia Penataran Hindu Temple Complex
Indonesia Asia Pulau Penyengat Palace Complex
Indonesia Asia Ratu Boko Temple Complex
Indonesia Asia Sukuh Hindu Temple
Indonesia Asia Waruga Burial Complex
Israel Asia Pre-historic Sites: Ubadiyya, Sha'ar Hagolan, Mount Carmel
Italy Europe Alba Fucens
Italy Europe Alps, a) Western Alps, b) Dolomites, c) Eastern Alps
Italy Europe Baia di Napoli con Capri, Ischia e Procida
Italy Europe Castles of the Trentino
Italy Europe Centro storico di Cividale a tempietto longobardo
Italy Europe Complessi di culto romanici dell'Abruzzo
Italy Europe Fascia costiera da Castellammare del Golfo a Trapani, con Erice, Mozia e la Isole Egadi
Italy Europe Fortezze dei Montefeltro
Italy Europe Fossil Forest of Dunarobba
Italy Europe Giotto e il Beato Angelico - Assisi e Cortona
Italy Europe Il Castrum di Aosta
Italy Europe Itria valley
Italy Europe Montecristo Island and its marine environment
Italy Europe National Park of Abruzzo
Italy Europe Oasi di Ninfa
Italy Europe Ostia Antica, Porto di Roma + Isola Sacra
Italy Europe Palermo, botanical garden and Monreale
Italy Europe Papal Residence of Anagni
Italy Europe Parco e Ville dei Castelli Romani (Colli Albani)
Italy Europe Parco Nazionale Del Gran Paradiso
Italy Europe Parco Nazionale della Stelvio
Italy Europe Piero della Francesca - Siena, Firenze, Borgo San Sepolcro
Italy Europe Pisticci
Italy Europe Pomponesco
Italy Europe Ponds of Cagliari
Italy Europe Promontorio del Gargano con Monte S.Angelo, Isole Tremiti e Foresta Umbra
Italy Europe Promontorio di Portofino con i centri storici di Camogli, S.Fruttuoso fino alla baia di Paraggi
Italy Europe Railway station Santa Maria Novella, Florence
Italy Europe Revere and Bozzolo
Italy Europe Riserva Bosco Fontana
Italy Europe San Pellegrino Terme
Italy Europe Sanctuary of Fortuna, Palestrina
Italy Europe Santa Maria delle Carceri, Prato
Italy Europe Santuario rupestre di Olevano sul Tusciano
Italy Europe Santuario Sannitico di Pietrabbondante
Italy Europe Spoleto and Tempietto sul Clitunno
Italy Europe Tempio Malatestiano
Italy Europe Thermal architecture of Arco
Italy Europe Thermal Architecture of Merano
Italy Europe Trani Cathedral
Italy Europe Tropea
Italy Europe Turin historic centre
Italy Europe Uccellina NP
Italy Europe Veio
Italy Europe Ville Vesuviane
Italy Europe Wine Grape landscapes: Langhe, Roero, Monferrato and Valtellina
Italy Europe Zone Carsiche: risorgenza del Timavo e Grotta Gigante
Libya Africa Apollonia
Libya Africa Euesperides
Libya Africa Germa
Libya Africa Ghirza
Libya Africa Medina Sultan
Libya Africa Ptolemais
Libya Africa Taucherie (Tocra)
Libya Africa Tripoli
Madagascar Africa Antongona
Madagascar Africa Arbres Silicifiies
Madagascar Africa Complex Defensif de la Cote Est Malagasy
Madagascar Africa Fort de Mahavelona
Madagascar Africa Le Sud Malagache
Madagascar Africa Massif D'Ambra
Madagascar Africa Palais de Andafiavaratra
Madagascar Africa Paysage culturel rizicole et hydraulique de Betafo
Madagascar Africa Site et Rova de Tsinjoarivo
Madagascar Africa Sites Archeologiques de Vohemar et le long de la Cote Nord-Est
Madagascar Africa Sites Islamiques du Nord-Ouest
Madagascar Africa Village Zafimaniry
Mali Africa Ensemble Adrar des Iforhas, Valle du Tilemsi, Es-souk
Mali Africa Etablissements humains de la falaise de Tamboura
Mali Africa Etablissements humains de la region de Kangaba, coeur du Pays Mande
Mali Africa Etablissements humains du Lac Debo et Culture Bozo
Mali Africa Piste Trans Saharienne de l'Or et du Sel -Thegaza, Taoudeni etc
Mali Africa Un ensemble hypogees de la Region de Bougouni
Morocco Africa Draa-Bani-Haut-Atlas
Philippines Asia Agusan Marsh Wildlife Sanctuary
Philippines Asia Historic Centre of Manila Intramuros
Philippines Asia Jesuit Churches of the Philippines
Philippines Asia Ligawasan Marsh
Philippines Asia Mount Apo Natural Park
Philippines Asia Mt. Matutum Protected Landscape
Philippines Asia Panglao Island, Bohol
Philippines Asia San Sebastian Church
Philippines Asia Spanish Colonial Fortifications of the Philippines
Philippines Asia Taal Volcano Protected landscape, Batangas
Philippines Asia The Maranao settlement of Tugaya
Philippines Asia Town of Taal
Spain Europe Albuferas y Humedales mediterráneos, Comunidad Valenciana
Spain Europe Árbol y Casa de Juntas de Gernika, Gernika-Bizkaia
Spain Europe Atarazanas Reales (Reials Drassanes), Barcelona
Spain Europe Camino de la lengua castellana, La Rioja
Spain Europe Church of San Juan de Banos de Cerrato (Palecia)
Spain Europe Coca - Castillo
Spain Europe Collegiate Church of Sant Vincenc de Cardona
Spain Europe Colonias industriales de los ríos Cardener y Llobregat
Spain Europe Conjunto arqueológico de Numancia, Castilla-Leon
Spain Europe Cultural Itinerary of Francis Xavier
Spain Europe El arte efímero en la fiesta del Corpus Christi Castilla-La Mancha
Spain Europe El Barranco de Poquoira, Granada
Spain Europe El camino de caballos de Menorca
Spain Europe El Canal de Castilla, Castilla-León
Spain Europe Fortificaciones y dependencias militares de Mao y es Castell
Spain Europe Hôpital Royal de la Santa Cruz
Spain Europe Iglesias rurales de Ibiza y Formentera
Spain Europe La Celtiberia, Aragón
Spain Europe La Ruta de la Sal (Canarias)
Spain Europe La ruta de los dólmenes, Extremadura
Spain Europe La ruta del comercio de la nieve, Comun Valenc
Spain Europe Las representaciones teatrales de caracter popular Cast- La Manch
Spain Europe Las Torres de defensa, Baleares
Spain Europe Miranda del Castanar - Historic Ensemble
Spain Europe Odiel Marshes
Spain Europe Palacio de la Granja
Spain Europe Renaissance and Baroque Arch in the City of Granada (extension of Granada)
Spain Europe Ruta Colombina
Spain Europe San Fernando Salt Ponds
Spain Europe Santillana del Mar - Historic Ensemble
Spain Europe Silos - Monasterio de Sto Domingo
Spain Europe Tarrasa - Acropolis S.Miguel, S Pedro and Sta Maria
Spain Europe The Architecture of Dry Built Stone
Spain Europe The Monastery of San Lorenzo de El Escorial and Natural Surroundings
Spain Europe The Works of Antoni Gaudí (8 locations extension)
Spain Europe Wine and Vineyard Cultural Itinerary through Mediterranean Towns
Syria Asia Al Refada
Syria Asia Al-Rasafa (Sergiopolis)
Syria Asia Bahio
Syria Asia Bamouqa
Syria Asia Bourade
Syria Asia Carqabis
Syria Asia Chahba (Philipopolis)
Syria Asia Danes
Syria Asia L'Ancienne route traversant la Region d'Al-lajat
Syria Asia L'église de Qalbe Loze
Syria Asia La Forteresse d'al-Rahbe
Syria Asia La Forteresse de Ja'abar
Syria Asia La Forteresse de Marqab
Syria Asia La Forteresse de Najm
Syria Asia La Route Romain entre Alep et Antakia
Syria Asia Le Palais de Ibn Wardan
Syria Asia Qatoura
Syria Asia Salhiet al-Fourat
Syria Asia Sarjaleh
Syria Asia Sergilla
Syria Asia Sit el Roum
Syria Asia Syrrhus
Syria Asia Tell Ade
Syria Asia Tell Ein-dara
Syria Asia Tell El-Machrafa (Qatana)
Syria Asia Zeus Madbachus
Tanzania Africa Bagamoyo Stone Town and Kaole Ruins
Tanzania Africa Engaruka Ruins Park
Tanzania Africa Laetoli Site
Tanzania Africa Lake Manyara National Park
Tanzania Africa Mahale National Park
Tanzania Africa Ruaha National Park
Tanzania Africa Tarangire National Park
Tanzania Africa Tendaguru Dinosaur Site
Tunisia Africa Site de Ben Jasla
Yemen Asia Site de Naynoune Al-Hada'

Author Solivagant
#56 | Posted: 7 Jun 2018 02:41 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Algeria Africa Citadel Quarter of Setif 36.191214, 5.404309
Algeria Africa Les Atlas, Atlas Saharien 35.324487, 6.659717
Algeria Africa Les mosquées de Tlemcen 34.883763, -1.310551
Algeria Africa Sidi bu-Medina 34.877867, -1.289593

Burkina Faso Africa Falaises de Banfora associées aux pics de Sindou
Falaises de Banfora 10.933411, -4.500052
Pics de Sindou 10.657155, -5.152500

Burkina Faso Africa Gravures rupestres de la grotte de Borodougou 11.168840, -4.188196
Burkina Faso Africa Niangouri
Burkina Faso Africa Sati 11.208941, -2.293079
Burkina Faso Africa Villages de Koro 12.807406, -3.609653

Algeria Africa Sidi bu-Medina
I don't think there is a "town" etc in Algeria called "Sidi Bu-medina" (and it is not to be confused with the Tunisian tourist village of Sidi Bou Said just outside Tunis). I think this refers to the Sidi Boumediene Mosque (alt "Sidi Abu Madyan") in Tlemcen - which would seem to make it a duplicate of the previous "Former T List? See -
Algeria Africa Les Atlas, Atlas Saharien
Could be ANYWHERE!! Wiki on the "Atlas Saharien" - "Il est principalement situé en Algérie. Le plus haut pic de la chaîne est le djebel Chélia, dans les Aurès (Algérie), à 2 328 m d'altitude. L'Atlas saharien comprend plusieurs ensembles d'ouest en est : les monts des Ksour (2 236 m au djebel Aïssa), le djebel Amour, les monts des Ouled Naïl, les monts des Zibans, le massif de l'Aurès (2 328 m au djébel Chélia)......" I have chosen the highest point at Djebel Chelia, which is also in a NP.
Can find nothing using this spelling except quotes from this Web sites "Former T List" and some person called "Bi Niangouri Elvis Douabou" !!
Gravures rupestres de la grotte de Borodougou
"Elles sont situées à 16 kilomètres de Bobo-Doulasso sur la RN1 dans le village de Borodougou. Son accessibilité est facile (route bitumée) jusqu'à la bifurcation pour Borodougou. L'accès des grottes abritant les gravures est très difficile." Called "Bonadougou" on Google Maps. – east of Bobo
But what might be "special" there isn't clear!
Koro (aka "Kouro")
Another Ironmaking village! "Le site de tourisme le plus visites au Burkina Faso. ... Le village de Koro est situé à 15 km de Bobo-Dioulasso, toutes ses maisons sont en banco"

Author meltwaterfalls
#57 | Posted: 7 Jun 2018 04:57 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
Thanks, all updated including the missing sites up above, under 200 now.

We've got 199 sites but Munich ain't one.

Some of those Chinese sites (things that were still on the t-list around 2012) I have mapped before. I specifically remmebred doing the Shanxi Businessmen's courtyards and Yunju temple.
I just can't seem to find a copy of the file, I fear it may have gone when my laptop was pinched a few years back, but I am checking my online back ups.

Author Solivagant
#58 | Posted: 7 Jun 2018 05:17 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Libya Africa Apollonia 32.902011, 21.969778
Libya Africa Euesperides 32.124502, 20.063218
Libya Africa Germa 26.544029, 13.063987
Libya Africa Ghirza 30.946825, 14.551019
Libya Africa Medina Sultan 31.131105, 17.103934
Libya Africa Ptolemais 32.706245, 20.952150
Libya Africa Taucherie (Tocra) 32.540263, 20.569030
Libya Africa Tripoli 32.896152, 13.180551

Euesperides – (aka "Hesperides") Ancient Greek colony on site of Benghazi. This photo shows some remains -
Google maps don't show them but this site says "The only ancient ruins are near the old Italian lighthouse and a little north east"
That enabled me to identify the coordinates – the archaeological site is clear on Google Sat view.
Ghirza – aka "Geriza". On the "Tripolitanian Limes" so could yet re-emerge one day!
Medina Sultan – "Medina Sultan Mosque - The ancient Sultan Mosque was discovered in the area of Sirte in 1963 and 1964. The mosque was built around the 10th century AD, when the Fatimids began to establish their foothold in Libya.".... "As-Sultan is a small Libyan village located about 50 km east of Sirte, which was also known as "the ancient city of Sirte". The village was anciently known as Iscinia and Macomades, which the locals now call Medina (The City)."
I have identified what seems to be the ruins (based on the photo in the above link) near to the village of "Es Sultan – a nearby place is also called "B'ir al-Madaniya"
Taucheira – another Greek port city -
Tripoli – chose "The Red Castle Museum (Assaraya al-Hamra), a vast palace complex with numerous courtyards...." (Wiki) for the coordinates.

Author Solivagant
#59 | Posted: 7 Jun 2018 06:08 | Edited by: Solivagant 
I will move on to Mali
Mali Africa Ensemble Adrar des Iforhas, Valle du Tilemsi, Es-souk 19.116707, 1.749968
Mali Africa Etablissements humains de la falaise de Tamboura 14.456985, -12.203108
Mali Africa Etablissements humains de la region de Kangaba, coeur du Pays Mande 11.933333, -8.416667
Mali Africa Etablissements humains du Lac Debo et Culture Bozo 15.334685, -4.141139
Mali Africa Piste Trans Saharienne de l'Or et du Sel - Thegaza, Taoudeni etc
Thegaza 23.6000, -5.0000
Taoudeni 22.676283, -3.982340
Mali Africa Un ensemble hypogees de la Region de Bougouni 11.427172, -7.494843

Ensemble Adrar des Iforhas (aka - Adrar des Ifoghas ) Wiki -
Falaise de Tamboura -
Used the old map shown in this article to locate general area of the "falaise" along the river
Kangaba, coeur du Pays Mande -
Lac Debo et Culture Bozo – "fishing operations are carried out in the lake using trawlers. The ethnic Bozo fisherman, resident on the shores of the lake are involved in these operations"
Trans Saharienne de l'Or et du Sel - Thegaza, Taoudeni etc Thegaza aka "Taghaza" -
Ensemble hypogees de la Region de Bougouni. This article - and its Map here - . Bougouni is shown for Hypogea – have used "town centre" for coordinates as can't find more detail

Author Assif
#60 | Posted: 7 Jun 2018 10:30 | Edited by: Assif 
Some of Italy:

Alba Fucens 42.077095, 13.412284
Baia di Napoli:
Naples inscribed
Procida 40.759647, 14.015473
Ischia 40.729940, 13.903193
Capri 40.553015, 14.223848
Centro storico di Cividale 46.093161, 13.431378
Fossil forest of Dunarobba 42.663096, 12.462774
Giotto e il beato Angelico: Assisi inscribed, Cortona 43.276463, 11.984104
Il Castrum di Aosta 45.739712, 7.326621

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