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Mapping Former TWHS

 
 
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Author Colvin
Partaker
#16 | Posted: 5 Jun 2018 00:57 
Incidentally, from the US former TWHS list, the Monadnock Building formerly submitted under the South Dearborn Street - Printing House Row North Historic District TWHS is now back in under the Early Chicago Skyscrapers TWHS, while the Point Reyes National Seashore/Farallon Islands National Wildlife Refuge former TWHS is now back as part of the California Current Conservation Complex TWHS.

Of the sites dropped from the list, I'd like to see Puʻuhonua o Hōnaunau National Historical Park get another shot, and I still think the Wright Brothers National Monument should be an extension of the Dayton Aviation Sites TWHS.

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#17 | Posted: 5 Jun 2018 01:09 
The map point for Parque Nacional Natural El Tuparro is incorrect - in Brazil rather than Colombia!
The Parque is clearly shown on your map due North across the border.

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#18 | Posted: 5 Jun 2018 05:55 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
Thanks for all your help on these! (updated Map)

Solivagant:
So - it would have been an extension to Canaima containing more Tepuis and does still exist as a series of protected areas outwith Canaima

Ok, that explanation makes sense and what I was guessing, though having not found a specific "Formacion Parantepui" I was drawing a blank. I've put in the location for Formaciones de Tepuyes Natural Monument.

Assif and Solivagant:
re Barinas: My guess, and it is only a guess, would be the most significant archaeological site in the state, namely the area of the Bumbun petroglyphs

Yep, that works for me, and I doubt anything particularly specific will be unearthed, so the amusingly monikered Bumbum wins out!

Assif:
The location of the dismantled Yenissei Bridge was next to Krasnoyarsk

Not sure how I got that wrong, but amended now.

Colvin:
I tackled the US and Canadian former TWHS tonight

BRILLIANT! thanks Colvin.
I was slightly looking forward to reliving my travels by doing those, but to be honest it is just as satisfying seeing them populated straight away! I wish Utah had carried on with the process, my count would be increased considerably, and the list would have some real crackers on there.

Solivagant:
This should actually be spelt "Güvem".
This is the best reference source I have found - it concerns the creation of a Geopark in the area (some other articles said that it had been set up but this doesn't seem to be the case.
Here is a map - http://www.jeoparkankara.com/proje/jeositler
It isn't quite clear to me what might be the "best" location as choice for coordinates -the Village of Güvem or in the countryside beyond??
Here are those for the village -40.591634, 32.659623
On Google Maps it will be seen that the entire area to the West is coloured green as a "park area"

You've Cracked it! Thanks.
On Google maps there is a location marker just north of the village for "Kızılcahamam-çamlıdere Jeoparkı" which as you say seems to be what this proposal turned into.


Oh thanks, I have used that site before, but very useful to be reminded of it.

Assif:
Thessaloniki is missing from the map.

We don't have Thessaloniki in our list of former TWHS so it wasn't picked up. I've added it in, but I'm guessing it was left off as it was effectively the nomination of the inscribed Thessaloniki WHS.

Solivagant:
The map point for Parque Nacional Natural El Tuparro is incorrect - in Brazil rather than Colombia!

Ah the 5 had dropped off the front of the co-ordinate so it had dropped a little more south, corrected now.



=====
Things I haven't cracked yet:
Bandjeli and Nagbani (Togo) I've found Bandjeli but haven't been able to get a definitive location for Nagbani. I know it has clay furnaces and is roughly in the same area somewhere, but haven't tracked it down yet.

Site de Ben Jasla (Tunisia) can't find anything about this at all, any help would be appreciated.
Best I've got is a transcription error from Ben Salah, who was a Tunisian trade union activist, but that seems a non starter, especially considering he was in political exile at the time of nomination.

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#19 | Posted: 5 Jun 2018 06:30 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
I've just noticed that wikipedia (especially the German version) has a link to a map of the former WHS that have coordinates on their wikipedia page. It should be a fairly straight forward just to pull the coordinates out of those (will just have to teach myself how to do that).

That could help with some of those remaining countries that have 25+ sites to map:
meltwaterfalls:
Mexico 26
Syria 26
Germany 64
Spain 69
Italy 74

That has worked to some extent with Germany and we have quickly gone from 64 to 34 without co-ordinates, Italy and Spain weren't quite as rich pickings though.

Still that tips us over half way, 799 sites (incl. subsites) to map, 401 done so far!

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#20 | Posted: 5 Jun 2018 08:23 | Edited by: Solivagant 
I will do Mexico - it seems appropriate as i have visited, I think, 12 of the 26! Now can I remember where they were?
Mexico Archaeological Zone of Bonampak and Lacandon Forest 16.704075, -91.064651
Mexico Archaeological Zone of Cacaxtla 19.244164, -98.340010
Mexico Chihuahua Desert Zone (Mapimi Biosphere Reserve) 26.627498, -103.888385
Mexico Churches in the Zoque Province, Chiapas
ex-convent of Santo Domingo in Tecpatan 17.137073, -93.312051
(7 more!!)
Mexico Complex - Franciscan Convent & Our Lady of the Assumption Cath, Tlaxcala (as ext of Popocatepetl) 19.313936, -98.237980
Mexico Former Jesuit Colleges in Tepotzotl 19.713444, -99.221728
Mexico Fort of San Juan de Ulua 19.209438, -96.131385
Mexico Fundidora Monterrey Blast Furnaces 25.676231, -100.282612
Mexico Historic Town of San Cristobal de las Casas and indigenous villages (I have chosen 2 - but as we don't "know" perhaps we should leave them out?
San Cristobal de las Casas16.736998, -92.637588
San Juan Chamula 16.788225, -92.689432
Tenejapa 16.817598, -92.507540
Mexico Industrial complex of the textile factory La Constancia Mexicana and its housing area 19.093704, -98.235010
Mexico Ludwig Mies Van Der Rohe and Felix Candela's Industrial Buildings
Bacardi Bottling Plant 19.627559, -99.189207
Mexico Monterrey's Industrial Facilities: Foundry, Brewery and Glassworks
Foundry - same as Blast furnace???
Brewery 25.693854, -100.317106
Glassworks
Mexico Natural Reserve El Triunfo 15.665014, -92.796744
Mexico Patzcuaro Lake Cultural Zone 19.558335, -101.646902
Mexico Pie de Vaca Palaeontological deposits 18.591172, -97.918570
Mexico Railway Station in the City of Aguascalientes and its Housing Complex 21.885371, -102.281083
Mexico Reserve de Biosphere Selva El Ocote 17.000118, -93.667677
Mexico Rock of Bernal, Sacred Places and Chapels of Otome - Chichimeca Lineage, Queretaro's Semi-desert
Rock of Bernal 20.748938, -99.944885
Chapels of Otomi (San Miguel Toliman) 20.868516, -99.962013
Mexico San Luis Potosí on the Mercury and Silver Route of the Intercontinental Camino Real 22.151369, -100.974237
Mexico Sierra de San Francisco et ses peintures rupestres (proposed under natural criteria) Is this really "Former"?? if so use same.
Mexico Sierra de San Pedro Martir - Rock Paintings and natural environment 30.905278, -115.501111
Mexico Sotano del Barro 21.311398, -99.667573
Mexico The Ahuehuete Tree of Santa Maria del Tule 17.046515, -96.636196
Mexico The City of Oaxaca, the archaeological site of Monte Alban and the site of Cuilapan (Cuilapan) 16.992405, -96.779089
Mexico Wetlands of Centla and Términos
Centla 18.355502, -92.591472
Terminos 18.658629, -91.563131
Mexico Zone de monuments de Puebla et Cholula (Cholula) 19.058111, -98.301802

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#21 | Posted: 5 Jun 2018 08:44 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
Hold your horses on Mexico, I am just going through them now.
(Though if you have done them already we can compare and see if i have got them wrong, could be a good bit of QA)

These are the ones I don't have yet (the ones with multiple locations)

Churches in the Zoque Province, Chiapas
Former Jesuit Colleges in Tepotzotl
Rock of Bernal, Sacred Places and Chapels of Otome - Chichimeca Lineage, Queretaro's Semi-desert
Wetlands of Centla and Términos

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#22 | Posted: 5 Jun 2018 09:55 
meltwaterfalls:
Hold your horses on Mexico,

Already done i am afraid! Above

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#23 | Posted: 5 Jun 2018 10:12 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
Solivagant:
Already done i am afraid! Above

Oh well, lets compare and see how mine tally up, all in the name of Quality Assurance.

This is the current list of sites missing co-ordinates, I'm going to have a break for a little while so if anyone else wan't to pick some up then jump in
meltwaterfalls:
Country Continent Site
Algeria Africa Citadel Quarter of Setif
Algeria Africa Les Atlas, Atlas Saharien
Algeria Africa Les mosquées de Tlemcen
Algeria Africa Sidi bu-Medina
Burkina Faso Africa Falaises de Banfora associées aux pics de Sindou
Burkina Faso Africa Gravures rupestres de la grotte de Borodougou
Burkina Faso Africa Niangouri
Burkina Faso Africa Sati
Burkina Faso Africa Villages de Koro
Cameroon Africa Cases-obus de Karsiki
Chad Africa Moundang traditional houses
China Asia Anji Bridge
China Asia Beijing Ancient Observatory
China Asia Dule Temple
China Asia Extension Project of Ancient Villages in South Anhui Province: Tangyue, Likeng and Wangkou village
China Asia Extension Project of Temple and Cemetery of Confucius and the Kong Family Mansion in Qufu: Temple of Confucius at Nishan
China Asia Huangguoshu Waterfalls
China Asia Jixian - conservation area of Mid/Upper Proterozoic
China Asia Kaiyuan Temple Pagoda of Dingzhou City
China Asia Lugou Bridge
China Asia Pagoda, Library Caves and Stone Tablets of sutra of Yunju Temple
China Asia Putuo Mountain Scenic Resort
China Asia Shanxi Businessmen's Courtyard Houses
China Asia Site of Ancient Copper Mine: Site of Ancient Copper Mine in Tongling
China Asia Site of the Qi State Capital and the Mausoleum of King of the Qi State at Linzi
China Asia The Forest of Steles in Xian
China Asia Tonglushan Ancient Copper Mine Sites
China Asia Yongle Palace
Congo (Democratic Republic) Africa Bunzi Sanctuary
Congo (Democratic Republic) Africa Kundelungu Park
Congo (Democratic Republic) Africa Maiko park
Congo (Democratic Republic) Africa Manbetu court
Congo (Democratic Republic) Africa Mbanga-Ngungu Caves
Congo (Democratic Republic) Africa Royal village of Bakuba
Congo (Republic) Africa Archaeological Site of Bittori
Congo (Republic) Africa Church of Lounzolo
Congo (Republic) Africa Diosso Groge and associated habitats
Congo (Republic) Africa Ma-Loango Royal Palace
Congo (Republic) Africa St. Anne du Congo Basilica
Indonesia Asia Banten Ancient City
Indonesia Asia Belgica Fort
Indonesia Asia Besakih
Indonesia Asia Elephant Cave
Indonesia Asia Great Mosque of Demak
Indonesia Asia Gunongan Historical Park
Indonesia Asia Lore Lindu NP
Indonesia Asia Ngada traditional house and megalithic complex
Indonesia Asia Penataran Hindu Temple Complex
Indonesia Asia Pulau Penyengat Palace Complex
Indonesia Asia Ratu Boko Temple Complex
Indonesia Asia Sukuh Hindu Temple
Indonesia Asia Waruga Burial Complex
Israel Asia Pre-historic Sites: Ubadiyya, Sha'ar Hagolan, Mount Carmel
Libya Africa Apollonia
Libya Africa Euesperides
Libya Africa Germa
Libya Africa Ghirza
Libya Africa Medina Sultan
Libya Africa Ptolemais
Libya Africa Taucherie (Tocra)
Libya Africa Tripoli
Madagascar Africa Antongona
Madagascar Africa Arbres Silicifiies
Madagascar Africa Complex Defensif de la Cote Est Malagasy
Madagascar Africa Fort de Mahavelona
Madagascar Africa Le Sud Malagache
Madagascar Africa Massif D'Ambra
Madagascar Africa Palais de Andafiavaratra
Madagascar Africa Paysage culturel rizicole et hydraulique de Betafo
Madagascar Africa Site et Rova de Tsinjoarivo
Madagascar Africa Sites Archeologiques de Vohemar et le long de la Cote Nord-Est
Madagascar Africa Sites Islamiques du Nord-Ouest
Madagascar Africa Village Zafimaniry
Mali Africa Ensemble Adrar des Iforhas, Valle du Tilemsi, Es-souk
Mali Africa Etablissements humains de la falaise de Tamboura
Mali Africa Etablissements humains de la region de Kangaba, coeur du Pays Mande
Mali Africa Etablissements humains du Lac Debo et Culture Bozo
Mali Africa Piste Trans Saharienne de l'Or et du Sel -Thegaza, Taoudeni etc
Mali Africa Un ensemble hypogees de la Region de Bougouni
Morocco Africa Draa-Bani-Haut-Atlas
Mozambique Africa Gorongosa Region
Mozambique Africa Great Inselberg Archipelago of N Mozambique
Mozambique Africa Riane Rock Paintings
Nigeria Africa Abuja (New Capital)
Nigeria Africa Birni Gazargamu and Gambaru
Nigeria Africa Kainji Lake National Park
Nigeria Africa Museum of Traditional Nigerian Architecture - Jos
Philippines Asia Agusan Marsh Wildlife Sanctuary
Philippines Asia Historic Centre of Manila Intramuros
Philippines Asia Jesuit Churches of the Philippines
Philippines Asia Ligawasan Marsh
Philippines Asia Mount Apo Natural Park
Philippines Asia Mt. Matutum Protected Landscape
Philippines Asia Panglao Island, Bohol
Philippines Asia San Sebastian Church
Philippines Asia Spanish Colonial Fortifications of the Philippines
Philippines Asia Taal Volcano Protected landscape, Batangas
Philippines Asia The Maranao settlement of Tugaya
Philippines Asia Town of Taal
Syria Asia Al Refada
Syria Asia Al-Rasafa (Sergiopolis)
Syria Asia Bahio
Syria Asia Bamouqa
Syria Asia Bourade
Syria Asia Carqabis
Syria Asia Chahba (Philipopolis)
Syria Asia Danes
Syria Asia L'Ancienne route traversant la Region d'Al-lajat
Syria Asia L'église de Qalbe Loze
Syria Asia La Forteresse d'al-Rahbe
Syria Asia La Forteresse de Ja'abar
Syria Asia La Forteresse de Marqab
Syria Asia La Forteresse de Najm
Syria Asia La Route Romain entre Alep et Antakia
Syria Asia Le Palais de Ibn Wardan
Syria Asia Qatoura
Syria Asia Salhiet al-Fourat
Syria Asia Sarjaleh
Syria Asia Sergilla
Syria Asia Sit el Roum
Syria Asia Syrrhus
Syria Asia Tell Ade
Syria Asia Tell Ein-dara
Syria Asia Tell El-Machrafa (Qatana)
Syria Asia Zeus Madbachus
Tanzania Africa Bagamoyo Stone Town and Kaole Ruins
Tanzania Africa Engaruka Ruins Park
Tanzania Africa Laetoli Site
Tanzania Africa Lake Manyara National Park
Tanzania Africa Mahale National Park
Tanzania Africa Ruaha National Park
Tanzania Africa Tarangire National Park
Tanzania Africa Tendaguru Dinosaur Site
Togo Africa Bandjeli and Nagbani
Tunisia Africa Site de Ben Jasla
Yemen Asia Site de Naynoune Al-Hada'


Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#24 | Posted: 5 Jun 2018 10:17 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
meltwaterfalls:
Country Continent Site
Italy Europe Alba Fucens
Italy Europe Alps, a) Western Alps, b) Dolomites, c) Eastern Alps
Italy Europe Baia di Napoli con Capri, Ischia e Procida
Italy Europe Castles of the Trentino
Italy Europe Centro storico di Cividale a tempietto longobardo
Italy Europe Complessi di culto romanici dell'Abruzzo
Italy Europe Fascia costiera da Castellammare del Golfo a Trapani, con Erice, Mozia e la Isole Egadi
Italy Europe Fortezze dei Montefeltro
Italy Europe Fossil Forest of Dunarobba
Italy Europe Giotto e il Beato Angelico - Assisi e Cortona
Italy Europe Il Castrum di Aosta
Italy Europe Itria valley
Italy Europe Montecristo Island and its marine environment
Italy Europe National Park of Abruzzo
Italy Europe Oasi di Ninfa
Italy Europe Ostia Antica, Porto di Roma + Isola Sacra
Italy Europe Otranto
Italy Europe Palermo, botanical garden and Monreale
Italy Europe Papal Residence of Anagni
Italy Europe Parco e Ville dei Castelli Romani (Colli Albani)
Italy Europe Parco Nazionale Del Gran Paradiso
Italy Europe Parco Nazionale della Stelvio
Italy Europe Piazza maggiore, Todi
Italy Europe Piero della Francesca - Siena, Firenze, Borgo San Sepolcro
Italy Europe Pisticci
Italy Europe Pomponesco
Italy Europe Ponds of Cagliari
Italy Europe Port of Pyrgi
Italy Europe Promontorio del Gargano con Monte S.Angelo, Isole Tremiti e Foresta Umbra
Italy Europe Promontorio di Portofino con i centri storici di Camogli, S.Fruttuoso fino alla baia di Paraggi
Italy Europe Railway station Santa Maria Novella, Florence
Italy Europe Revere and Bozzolo
Italy Europe Riserva Bosco Fontana
Italy Europe San Pellegrino Terme
Italy Europe Sanctuary of Fortuna, Palestrina
Italy Europe Santa Maria delle Carceri, Prato
Italy Europe Santuario rupestre di Olevano sul Tusciano
Italy Europe Santuario Sannitico di Pietrabbondante
Italy Europe Spoleto and Tempietto sul Clitunno
Italy Europe Tempio Malatestiano
Italy Europe Thermal architecture of Arco
Italy Europe Thermal Architecture of Merano
Italy Europe Trani Cathedral
Italy Europe Tropea
Italy Europe Turin historic centre
Italy Europe Uccellina NP
Italy Europe Veio
Italy Europe Ville Vesuviane
Italy Europe Wine Grape landscapes: Langhe, Roero, Monferrato and Valtellina
Italy Europe Zone Carsiche: risorgenza del Timavo e Grotta Gigante
Spain Europe Albuferas y Humedales mediterráneos, Comunidad Valenciana
Spain Europe Almagro: ciudad del teatro clásico, Ciudad Real
Spain Europe Árbol y Casa de Juntas de Gernika, Gernika-Bizkaia
Spain Europe Archipiélago de Cabrera, Islas Baleares
Spain Europe Atarazanas Reales (Reials Drassanes), Barcelona
Spain Europe Betancuria (Fuertaventura) - Hisotirc Ensemble
Spain Europe Boqueixon - Pico Sacro
Spain Europe Cabañeros, Castilla-La Mancha
Spain Europe Caltojar - Hermitage of San Baudelio de Berlanda
Spain Europe Camino de la lengua castellana, La Rioja
Spain Europe Cartagena y su entorno natural: Historia y Paisaje
Spain Europe Casco antiguo de Cadiz
Spain Europe Casco historico de Burgos
Spain Europe Centro alfarero de Arguayo, Santiago del Teide Tenerife
Spain Europe Church of San Juan de Banos de Cerrato (Palecia)
Spain Europe Church of Santiago de Penalba
Spain Europe Ciudad de Morella
Spain Europe Coca - Castillo
Spain Europe Collegiate Church of Sant Vincenc de Cardona
Spain Europe Colonias industriales de los ríos Cardener y Llobregat
Spain Europe Conjunto arqueológico de Numancia, Castilla-Leon
Spain Europe Conjunto Histórico de Santa Cruz de La Palma (La Palma)
Spain Europe Conjunto urbano y arquitectura popular de la ciudad de Albarracin
Spain Europe Cultural Itinerary of Francis Xavier
Spain Europe Dinosaur Ichnite Sites of the Iberian Peninsula
Spain Europe El arte efímero en la fiesta del Corpus Christi Castilla-La Mancha
Spain Europe El Barranc d'Algendar. Menorca
Spain Europe El Barranco de Poquoira, Granada
Spain Europe El camino de caballos de Menorca
Spain Europe El Canal de Castilla, Castilla-León
Spain Europe El casco antiguo de Ciutadela, Menorca
Spain Europe El conjunto histórico de Xátiva, Commun Valenc
Spain Europe El monasterio de San Antonio el Real, Segovia
Spain Europe El Rocío, Huelva
Spain Europe El Románico Palentino, Palencia
Spain Europe Fortificaciones y dependencias militares de Mao y es Castell
Spain Europe Gradefes - Church of San Miguel de Escalada
Spain Europe Hôpital Royal de la Santa Cruz
Spain Europe Iglesias rurales de Ibiza y Formentera
Spain Europe La Celtiberia, Aragón
Spain Europe La Depresion Guadix - Baza, Granada
Spain Europe La Ruta de la Sal (Canarias)
Spain Europe La ruta de los dólmenes, Extremadura
Spain Europe La ruta del comercio de la nieve, Comun Valenc
Spain Europe Las Huelgas
Spain Europe Las representaciones teatrales de caracter popular Cast- La Manch
Spain Europe Las Torres de defensa, Baleares
Spain Europe Los Barruecos de Malpartida, Cáceres
Spain Europe Miraflores (Carthusian)
Spain Europe Miranda del Castanar - Historic Ensemble
Spain Europe Odiel Marshes
Spain Europe Palacio de la Granja
Spain Europe Renaissance and Baroque Arch in the City of Granada (extension of Granada)
Spain Europe Ruta Colombina
Spain Europe San Fernando Salt Ponds
Spain Europe San Isidoro de Leon
Spain Europe Santillana del Mar - Historic Ensemble
Spain Europe Silos - Monasterio de Sto Domingo
Spain Europe Tarrasa - Acropolis S.Miguel, S Pedro and Sta Maria
Spain Europe The Architecture of Dry Built Stone
Spain Europe The Monastery of San Lorenzo de El Escorial and Natural Surroundings
Spain Europe The Works of Antoni Gaudí (8 locations extension)
Spain Europe Wine and Vineyard Cultural Itinerary through Mediterranean Towns

Including the additional recently discovered Spanish ones.

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#25 | Posted: 5 Jun 2018 10:56 
meltwaterfalls:
Oh well, lets compare and see how mine tally up, all in the name of Quality Assurance.

Here you go, they are all but identical, except the odd one where you or I have done an extra location.

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#26 | Posted: 5 Jun 2018 11:25 | Edited by: Solivagant 
The former site was called "Ludwig Mies Van Der Rohe and Felix Candela's Industrial Buildings" - i.e "Plural" - are there more than the Bacardi Bottling Plant where they worked together??

I will take on Pakistan (unless you are doing it!!) OK??

Author Assif
Partaker
#27 | Posted: 5 Jun 2018 11:47 
meltwaterfalls:
We don't have Thessaloniki in our list of former TWHS so it wasn't picked up.

The FTWHS included ancient sites. It is on the country page but somehow it is missing on the FTWHS list:
https://www.worldheritagesite.org/tentative/former/id/9174

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#28 | Posted: 5 Jun 2018 11:49 
Solivagant:
The former site was called "Ludwig Mies Van Der Rohe and Felix Candela's Industrial Buildings" - i.e "Plural" - are there more than the Bacardi Bottling Plant where they worked together??

I was confused by that as well, but I think it refers to the multiple buildings on the same site. Probably isn't how a native English speaker would term it, but there is some logic to it.

Yep feel free to pile into Pakistan (I e-mailed you a link if that is of use), I may try to finish off Germany and then I'm off to the zoo tomorrow so probably won't get much done then.

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#29 | Posted: 5 Jun 2018 12:11 | Edited by: Solivagant 
meltwaterfalls:
I'm off to the zoo tomorrow so probably won't get much done then.

On holiday at home???? Ah well - that's what being a father leads to!

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#30 | Posted: 5 Jun 2018 12:17 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
Solivagant:
On holiday at home???? Ah well - that's what being a father is all about!

I know, takes some getting used to. After nearly two decades of keeping every possible day of leave for international trips I now get to use them driving around Surrey and Hampshire. Still well worth it though :).

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