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New Tentative Lists

 
 
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Author winterkjm
Partaker
#61 | Posted: 8 Mar 2012 22:50 
Palestine just submitted its first site.

*Birthplace of Jesus Church of Nativity and the Pilgrimage Route

Author Euloroo
Partaker
#62 | Posted: 9 Mar 2012 05:44 
winterkjm:
Palestine just submitted its first site.

Far be it for me to get political be it does seem incredulous that the State Party description makes no explicit mention of historical Israelite settlement. You can't change history!

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#63 | Posted: 9 Mar 2012 08:03 
Euloroo I'm with you on that one.

I can understand that perhaps mentioning it being the acclaimed site of King David's crowning could cause the political situation to heat up, but it is a little dishonest to not mention that the site has Jewish history too.

Author Assif
Partaker
#64 | Posted: 9 Mar 2012 11:15 | Edited by: Assif 
I agree it is unjustified to talk about the religious value Bethlehem holds for Christians and Muslims and ignore the Jews. Nonetheless, Euloroo, there are no archaeological proofs whatsoever neither in Bethlehem nor anywhere else to the existence of Jews in Israel prior to Cyrus' declaration (6th Century BC), which is about the time when the Torah was sealed. Despite numerous (sometimes ideologically motivated) attempts to discover some archaeological proof to the existence of a Jewish society in Israel (or Palestine for that sake) during the alleged time of the first temple none proved successful (thus far). This is not to say nothing of value has been found. On the contrary. The Biblical tells or the City of David are such fascinating examples which are of great archaeological value. None of these, however, demonstrate any sign of the Jewish religion. This stands in sharp contrast to later findings of the Second Temple period, which are abundant. This has led some historians to even doubt whether there existed at all such a Jewish society in Israel back then (most famous is Shlomo Sand). I am not saying this to undermine any religious belief which is by definition unscientific, just to undermine the common scientific assumption that what is described in the Old Testament is historical, regardless of whether or not there is archaeological proof backing it.

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#65 | Posted: 9 Mar 2012 17:00 
3 Spain additions.

Antequera Dolmen Sites (27/01/2012)

Jaén Cathedral (extension of the Renaissance Monumental Ensembles of Úbeda and Baeza) (27/01/2012)

Valle Salado de Añana (27/01/2012)

Author Euloroo
Partaker
#66 | Posted: 10 Mar 2012 09:11 | Edited by: Euloroo 
Thanks Assif. I'm certainly no expert in this area and your input is, as ever, insightful. The tangible heritage being proposed for inscription is clearly the church building and at least some of the pilgrimage route. Perhaps some earlier archaeology in the vicinity could also be included within the core zone, based on some of the comments in the Description. I'd be interested to know if you have more information on this.

Whilst there may be no direct connection to Israelite history within the proposed inscribed area, I understand that Jesus Christ is acknowledged by Muslim and Christian tradition (and non-scriptural Jewish documentary evidence from the time) as being of Israelite lineage, basing his teachings on the Torah and predominantly addressing an Israelite audience. Added to that, as meltwaterfalls alludes, the very cultural significance, if you will, of the church is that Christ being born in Bethlehem relates directly to him being considered a representation of kingship, after the model of King David. That is not to say that the site itself, or Bethlehem, has tangible evidence of King David.

However, I appreciate this is a highly sensitive issue and that the wording of any documentation associated with the inscription is going to be somewhat tricky. I just think that - in clearly difficult circumstances - it might have shown the Palestinian Authority to be the bigger man by at least acknowledging some historical Israelite settlement in their summary to UNESCO. Perhaps they did in further documentation not on the WHC website. Ultimately, of course, none of this changes the tangible heritage.

Author Assif
Partaker
#67 | Posted: 10 Mar 2012 12:24 | Edited by: Assif 
In this, Euloroo, I completely agree. I also misunderstood your wording. In archaeology when speaking of Israelites there is a reference to the First Temple period, which is of course much earlier (presumably until the 7th century BC). That Bethlehem used to be a Jewish settlement in the Second Temple period (which is the time at hand) is at least highly probable. Therefore, I agree it merits some acknowledgement in the nomination file. Moreover, as said Bethlehem is not nominated only due to its archaeological/historical significance, but mainly for its religious one. In this one could certainly mention the Jewish religion too.

Author Euloroo
Partaker
#68 | Posted: 11 Mar 2012 03:11 | Edited by: Euloroo 
Thanks for the clarification Assif.

But while we are on the subject of Tentative Lists and Solomon's (First) Temple, this is a good segue to one of my favourite archaeological sites, the Hittite Temple of Ain Dara in Syria. This unassuming site, about ten minutes drive from the Church of Saint Simeon Stylites, dates from 1300BC and demonstrates (from my amateurish perspective) a high level of workmanship and degree of preservation, matched by very few sites of that period. I can't believe its not on Syria's Tentative list.

What is fascinating is the similarity of the layout of Ain Dara to the description of Solomon's Temple, which it appears to pre-date. From the Biblical narrative its also interesting to note that the Israelites intermarried with the Hittites (rather than drove them out as instructed) such that generations later, King David is disgraced by the honourableness of Uriah the Hittite, after his indiscretion with Uriah's wife Bathsheba (Solomon's mother), whilst Uriah is fighting a military campaign for Israel! We could make lots of conjecture here!

Author Assif
Partaker
#69 | Posted: 11 Mar 2012 06:15 
Does anyone know how things are planned for the Viking nomination?
http://www.vikingheritage.org/
It involves three existing nominations with new ones. Is this going to be carried out as an extension or as a serial nomination doubling the existing ones?

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#70 | Posted: 12 Mar 2012 07:05 
Assif:
Does anyone know how things are planned for the Viking nomination?

Thus far I assumed it to be that the 3 sites will be rolled into one alongside the new locations in Norway, Latvia and Germany. But I am not 100% sure of that. I'm not really up on my Viking history so I don't know if there is any real logic to combining the sites other than a loose association.

Thanks for the info on Bethlehem.

Author hubert
Partaker
#71 | Posted: 12 Mar 2012 15:38 | Edited by: hubert 
Assif:
Does anyone know how things are planned for the Viking nomination?


As far as I understand, the upcoming nomination in fact includes the three already existing WHS. Together there are eight component parts from six countries. So, this nomination would reduce the total number of WHS.
According to this German website dated October 2011 the nomination file has already been submitted to the UNESCO and the decision is expected in 2013. But I'm not sure if this really has been done.

http://www.ndr.de/reise_freizeit/urlaubsregionen/flensburg_schlei/unescowikinger101.h tml

The text mainly describes the German site, but also mentions, that the eight sites are independent from each other and that they represent different aspects of the Viking culture. Thus, it seems to be rather a loose combination as assumed by meltwaterfalls.

Re: Palestine T-list

Really interesting information on Bethlehem, thanks for that.
It has been reported that Palestine is planning to add a total of 20 locations on the T-List.

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/03/08/199370.html

I was wondering which sites are on the list and found the following:
http://www.bethlehem-whs.pna.ps/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=50&Itemi d=59

I suppose there is much material for discussion and controversy, as the list includes sites in Jerusalem and areas not currently under Palestinian control (such as Qumran, I think).

Author Assif
Partaker
#72 | Posted: 13 Mar 2012 04:14 
Qumran is indeed under Israeli control and is even an Israeli National Park. Also under Israeli control is a big military zone within the old town of Hebron occupied by extreme Jewish settlers. I don't know the aqueduct leading to Jerusalem, but it isn't under Israeli control, as far as I know.
The Palestinian portion of the Dead Sea is also under Israeli control. Nonetheless, the recent 7 wonders contest made Israel join forces with the Palestinian authority (as well as with the Jordanians) in making a joint application (which didn't work out). Regardless, of political issues no nomination of the Dead Sea could ever be successful without the cooporation of all three parties sharing it. Israel is heavily exploiting the Dead Sea for both its salts and the water flowing there, so I could see no chance for any nomination there.
I think some other nominations stand good chances: Tell as-Sultan in Jericho, Mount Gerizim in Nablus, El bariyah at the Judean Desert and Umayyad Palaces (mainly Hisham Palace in Jericho). I'm surprised of two sites that were not included: Herodion and the Olive Mountain as an extension to the old town of Jerusalem (both under Israeli control).

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#73 | Posted: 13 Mar 2012 10:32 
The first tentative list from Bhutan.

Ancient Ruin of Drukgyel Dzong (08/03/2012)
Bumdeling Wildlife Sanctuary (03/08/2012)
Dzongs: the centre of temporal and religious authorities (Punakha Dzong, Wangdue Phodrang Dzong, Paro Dzong, Trongsa Dzong and Dagana Dzong) (08/03/2012)
Jigme Dorji National Park (JDNP) (03/08/2012)
Royal Manas National Park (RMNP) (08/03/2012)
Sacred Sites associated with Phajo Drugom Zhigpo and his descendants (08/03/2012)

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#74 | Posted: 13 Mar 2012 12:49 
winterkjm:
Dzongs: the centre of temporal and religious authorities (Punakha Dzong, Wangdue Phodrang Dzong, Paro Dzong, Trongsa Dzong and Dagana Dzong) (08/03/2012)


Finally, these are long long overdue. Though of course it could well be a good 5-10 years before they get a place.

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#75 | Posted: 2 Apr 2012 18:08 
Romania

The old villages of Hollókő and Rimetea and their surroundings (01/02/2012)

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