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TOP Missing By Country - Discussion

 
 
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Author nfmungard
Partaker
#16 | Posted: 7 Jun 2020 06:01 
Colvin:
This site is probably my most visited site on the proposed list of nominations for the United States, yet I've been very indifferent to it in the past. To me, even though the architecture is spectacular, the museums and memorials seem rather nationalistic, and not important enough to make it to World Heritage status.

Now, I will make the reverse Berlin Wall argument :D

I think the Mall should be inscribed for what it tries to do: Democratic architecture. You have all branches of government accessible to the public with the Mall (and the citizens) being in the center. The Mall was the place for many large, peaceful and iconic protests. It is also a huge assembly of public museums, not intended for the elite but for the public; the Smithsonian being in and of itself memorable. And if sitting on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, looking down on the Mall and imaging MLK speaking to the masses with Lincoln behind you, doesn't feel historic, nothing ever will.

Now, there are dubious parts, the war memorials specifically. But those could be excluded easily. But this is all part of the earth's oldest democracy and tells it's history like no other place does, so why not keep them?

In any case, I think this belongs with Top Missing.

Author Colvin
Partaker
#17 | Posted: 7 Jun 2020 11:32 | Edited by: Colvin 
nfmungard:
Now, I will make the reverse Berlin Wall argument :D

True -- the heart of the Berlin Wall nomination is that it recognizes the most iconic tangible symbol of the Iron Curtain in Europe; not the most uplifting part of history, but still a vital memory of a time and place in which ideologies faced off on the world stage in the 20th century. In addtion to the extant sections of the wall, I included the Brandenburg Gate as part of the nomination, though, since that is where protests for change and freedom took place, and where the world watched as the wall was torn down.

Author mrayers
Partaker
#18 | Posted: 7 Jun 2020 14:55 | Edited by: mrayers 
Got a little distracted yesterday, and missed this thread...

From winterkjm's original suggested Tiers, I would move these down to a lower tier:

-Mojave Desert: Death Valley & Joshua Tree National Park (tough call)
-New York City Skyscrapers (I would go with only one skyscraper site for now)
-Spread of International Style Modernism to the United States
-Santa Elena Canyon & Big Bend International Peace Park (transnational)
-White Sands National Monument

and promote these to Tier 1:

-Golden Gate Bridge (I'm on the fence with this one)
-Heritage of the Hawaiian Kingdom
-Ice Age Floods National Geologic Trail (biased, because it was my proposal, but I really do think it is Top 50 ;-) )
-Marianas Trench Marine National Monument
-The Mall of Washington DC (I am not very bothered at the moment about any nationalistic/war monument elements that exist now. Many European or Latin Am. City Center WHSs have components that are somewhat nationalistic, or statues of long-dead generals on horseback. New construction could be an issue, but I suppose it depends on whether "on or near the Mall" means "on" or "near.")

For Russia, I also have no clue as of now. Ironically, I was supposed to be in Russia right now (since May 4), but obviously I am not. Had that worked out I might have been able to form an opinion by now. :-(

winterkjm's split for China seems reasonable to me, however.

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#19 | Posted: 7 Jun 2020 16:45 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Colvin:
Ice Age Floods National Geologic Trail

mrayers:
Ice Age Floods National Geologic Trail

I may have missed some of this one, it looks intriguing. I probably need to look more into the value of this trail.

mrayers:
Mojave Desert: Death Valley & Joshua Tree National Park (tough call)

I agree, this is a tough call as well. I understand the focus on the National Parks alone, but it's a stretch to call this the Mojave Desert without the Mojave National Preserve or Mojave Trials National Monument. I was generally for limiting the proposal to the Death Valley alone or the whole combined ecosystem that generally follows the UNESCO biosphere reserve.

mrayers:
-Golden Gate Bridge (I'm on the fence with this one)

The location, the color, the engineering all stand out. But is it really Top Missing? Some in SF even prefer the Bay Bridge, which is impressive in its own right. I personally prefer the Brooklyn Bridge if any US bridge makes it on the list.

nfmungard:
In any case, I think this belongs with Top Missing.

You and Colvin are very convincing, maybe not "Top Missing" for me, but I might lean toward Tier 2.

Author mrayers
Partaker
#20 | Posted: 7 Jun 2020 17:05 
winterkjm:
I agree, this is a tough call as well. I understand the focus on the National Parks alone, but it's a stretch to call this the Mojave Desert without the Mojave National Preserve or Mojave Trials National Monument. I was generally for limiting the proposal to the Death Valley alone or the whole combined ecosystem that generally follows the UNESCO biosphere reserve.



I definitely think this should be a WHS, but for me it's just barely below my cut-off as a Top 50 candidate (and I tend to prefer Joshua Tree)


The location, the color, the engineering all stand out. But is it really Top Missing? Some in SF even prefer the Bay Bridge, which is impressive in its own right. I personally prefer the Brooklyn Bridge if any US bridge makes it on the list.

In the end, I might not actually vote for it in the final vote, but for me, it's worthy of being considered. In my opinion it's one of only a very few cases where a human-built object has been placed in an already-beautiful location without making it worse. (plus I used to be able to see it every day from my old workplace in the Berkeley Hills)

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#21 | Posted: 8 Jun 2020 03:58 
Two more disagreements from my side: Both Shanghai and NYC belong in top missing.
* Shanghai is just incredible and so out of place in China.
* And while Chicago may be where the skyscraper developer, NYC is where it reached its epitome in the 20th century.

Author Zos
Partaker
#22 | Posted: 9 Jun 2020 13:48 | Edited by: Zos 
winterkjm:
2 (Approved) Kashgar

Is there enough original structure that remain? There was a massive demolition way back in 2009/10.

My take on China:
Tier 1 (alphabetical) *Strong argument for top missing
2 (Approved) Great Tibetan Monasteries
2 (Approved) Mount Kailash
2 (Approved) Sacred Mountain Landscape: Changbai Range and Mt Paektu (transnational)
2 (Approved) Western Xia mausoleums
2 (Approved) ShuDao
2 (Approved) Lingqu Canal

Tier 2 (alphabetical) Potential top missing depending on other proposal

2 (Approved) Ancient Waterfront Towns in the South of Yangtze River
2 (Approved) Drum and Bell Towers of China (serial)
2 (Approved) Shanghai foreign concessions --> Will be one of my choice for top missing if Serial with other foreign concessions of China to show a full story.
2 (Approved) Wooden Structures of Liao Dynasty

On the fence on these two:
2 (Approved) Ban Gioc Waterfall System --> might only be regional significance. Can't be compared to Iguazu or Victoria Falls. So definitely not a top missing.
2 (Approved) Imperial Xi'an --> Each of the components of this proposal has potential if split and combined with other themes. (1) City wall with the TWHS Ming and Qing City walls, (2) Silk Roads China corridor, (3) Bell and Drum towers serial proposal, (4) Several sites already inscribed in curent Silk Road TWHS.

Author Zos
Partaker
#23 | Posted: 9 Jun 2020 13:52 
Here is my take on Philippines sites

Tier 1: (Very) Strong argument for top missing
2 (Approved) Manila-Acapulco Galleon Trade route (1565-1815) - Transnational serial site including Philippines, Mexico, USA, Guam, Northern Marianas, Japan. Sufficient built heritage and archeological remains that shows the full extent of the route. Very strong underwater archeological heritage of the full route - from the waters of the Philippines, off the coast of Japan, off the coast of US and Mexico, Northern Marianas and Guam. (Trivia: one shipwreck site at Buhatan Beach Sorsogon can be easily visited by tourists wither by diving or viewing the clear waters from a boat)

2 (Approved) Taal: Testimony of a volcano and the evolution of a Spanish Colonial Town - Fills gap in resurgent volcano caldera (Thematic studies on Volcano) and shows the evolution of Spanish colonial town affected by the volcanic activity - from ruins of settlements around the volcano to a well-preserved Spanish colonial town

2 (Approved) Karst Landscape of the Philippines - Shows the diversity of karst landscape (marine, in-land, mountain karst) in the Philippine Archipelago with outstanding natural beauty and biodiversity. OUV is differentiated from South China Karst and Dinaric Karst. Components can include Puerto Princessa Subterranean River (WHS), El Nido-Taytay (TWHS), Coron (TWHS), Mt Banahaw in Luzon (identified by IUCN as can fill gap for Philippine Moist Forest), Caramoan Peninsula in Bicol, Sohoton Caves in Samar, Mt Kitanglad in Mindanao (ASEAN Heritage Park), Chocolate Hills (TWHS). (Chocolate Hills can still fit in biodiversity criteria as it is habitat of Philippine tarsier).

Tier 2: Potential top missing depending on other proposals
2 (Approved) Spanish Colonial and Community Defense Structures of the Philippines - Testimony of piracy and slavery in South East Asia during the time of European global-regional dominance. Globa1 events between the West and Asia was one of the key drivers for raiding settlements. Diversity of ruins and forts that shows both systematic and communal defence against the raiders.

2 (Approved) Mount Mantalingajan Protected Landscape - Represents Palawan Moist Forest, a Global 200 eco-region. Very high species diversity

2 (Approved) Verde Island Passage - Part of the coral triangle and a global hotspot for shore fish diversity.

Tier 3: Strong Case for World Heritage Status but not top missing candidate
1 (Proposed) Paleolithic Archeological Sites in Cagayan Valley - Pre-Hispanic Philippines.
1 (Proposed) Gabaldon School Buildings of the Philippines - Testimony of American Colonial influence in Asia

Tier 4: Potential but might have issues
2 (Approved) Austronesian Migration Routes - needs identification of component

Overlap
2 (Approved) Chocolate Hills Natural Monuments - might be too niche is stand-alone. But enough merits to be included in Karst Lansdcape under criteria 9 and 10.
2 (Approved) El Nido - Taytay Managed Resource Area - Mid-to-strong case for top missing as stand-alone. Definitely a key component of the karst landscape.

Not Proposed but have a case to be WHS
Mayon Volcano - world's most perfect cone volcano. Fills a gap in IUCN Thematic Studies on Volcanoes
Historic Sugar Industrial Properties and Related Sites - industrial heritage relating to sugar industry (including sugar centrals, mansion of sugar barons, and heritage houses). Planned inclusion on Philippine TWHS
Freshwater Ecosystems of the Philippines - Global 200 freshwater ecosystem. Former TWHS Liguasan Marsh and Former TWHS Agusan Marsh can be considered. Some mountain and volcanic lakes with high biodiversity values can be identified
Luzon Moist Forests - serial site of tropical rainforests in Luzon island (includes Northern Sierra Madre TWHS)
Rainforests of Leyte, Samar and Mindanao - can be an extension of Mt. Hamiguitan or as separate serial site

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