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Top 50 Missing - 2020 version - Whiteboard

 
 
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Author wojtek
Partaker
#121 | Posted: 13 May 2020 13:36 
Sjobe:
Wojtek, if you have visited many Turkish T sites, could you highlight something based on your experiences.

I visited only 11, mainly in the East, so certainly I am not an expert. Out of those 11 I would point Tombstones of Ahlat as outstanding and worth being in Top 50 - afaik there is no such old muslim cemetery on the WH list. Iznik is also very good (see my review) and the rest was mediocre. Sumela looks fantastic but I was extremely unlucky - after long restoration it reopened just two weeks after my failed attempt to visit it.

Author Sjobe
Partaker
#122 | Posted: 13 May 2020 15:01 
wojtek:
Out of those 11 I would point Tombstones of Ahlat as outstanding and worth being in Top 50 - afaik there is no such old muslim cemetery on the WH list. Iznik is also very good (see my review) and the rest was mediocre. Sumela looks fantastic but I was extremely unlucky - after long restoration it reopened just two weeks after my failed attempt to visit it.

Thank you for the comment. This partly supports my own thoughts. I guess that at the very least The Tombstones of Ahlat the Urartian and Ottoman citadel deserves a proposal.

Sümela Monastery indeed looks great on photos both outside and inside. Too bad you couldn't visit it properly.

Apparently you have visited also the Akdamar Church and Island? How would you rate that? A thought of an important Armenian church being WHS in Turkey feels intriguing. I wouldn't propose Armenian church from Armenia, but this one seems special. And also this is very beautiful site with great setting, at least on photos.

Author wojtek
Partaker
#123 | Posted: 13 May 2020 15:20 
Sjobe:
Apparently you have visited also the Akdamar Church and Island?

Unfortunately not. I didn't want to count on unpredictable ferry so I skipped it. I saw it was nice but I am not sure it is that unique. I think its location makes it special.

Author Colvin
Partaker
#124 | Posted: 13 May 2020 15:35 
Sjobe:
A thought of an important Armenian church being WHS in Turkey feels intriguing.

Turkey did have the Archaeological Site of Ani, former capital of Bagratid Armenia and nicknamed the City of 1001 Churches, inscribed in 2016. I'd be curious to hear how the remaining cathedral and churches compare with the Akmadar Church if anyone has seen both.

Author Sjobe
Partaker
#125 | Posted: 13 May 2020 15:59 | Edited by: Sjobe 
Colvin:
Turkey did have the Archaeological Site of Ani, former capital of Bagratid Armenia and nicknamed the City of 1001 Churches, inscribed in 2016. I'd be curious to hear how the remaining cathedral and churches compare with the Akmadar Church if anyone has seen both.

Inscription of Ani was a big surprise after the site was left to decay for ages. After Ani the chances of Akdamar may be weak. I haven't visited these sites, but while the churches of Ani are more or less in ruins, the Akdamar Church is in quite a good condition. Even one religious service per year is allowed in Akdamar, and also a cross sits on top of the dome after some controversies. So the Armenian elements are more concrete than in the ruins of Ani which can make the things more difficult for Akdamar.

Author Colvin
Partaker
#126 | Posted: 13 May 2020 17:47 
Sjobe:
fter Ani the chances of Akdamar may be weak. I haven't visited these sites, but while the churches of Ani are more or less in ruins, the Akdamar Church is in quite a good condition.

The location of Akdamar on an island certainly makes it seem fascinating. I don't know how Turkey would proceed with this TWHS, but it does sound like it would be a nice place to visit.

Author Jurre
Partaker
#127 | Posted: 14 May 2020 17:36 | Edited by: Jurre 
I'm not sure about the name "Bering Strait - Alaska Maritime National Wildlife Refuge and Commander Islands" of the proposal.

There is another proposal that could be made that is more about the Bering Strait: the transnational Bering Strait Site: Bering Land Bridge National Preserve (US) & Beringia National Park (Russia).

This proposal would actually be about the Bering Strait, while the "Alaska Maritime National Wildlife Refuge and Commander Islands" are more about the Bering Sea.

Author Colvin
Partaker
#128 | Posted: 14 May 2020 17:43 | Edited by: Colvin 
Yes, the Alaska Maritime National Wildlife Refuge does cover both sides of the Bering Strait, but the name may be a bit misleading, since the bulk of the sites listed are not technically in the Bering Strait. Still, I would view a Bering Strait proposal with additional sites superfluous to what has already been proposed, which covers much of the ecology, geology, and flora and fauna of that part of the world. Others may feel differently, though, so I'd love to hear other opinions.

Author Jurre
Partaker
#129 | Posted: 14 May 2020 18:27 
Colvin:
Yes, the Alaska Maritime National Wildlife Refuge does cover both sides of the Bering Strait, but the name may be a bit misleading, since the bulk of the sites listed are not technically in the Bering Strait. Still, I would view a Bering Strait proposal with additional sites superfluous to what has already been proposed, which covers much of the ecology, geology, and flora and fauna of that part of the world. Others may feel differently, though, so I'd love to hear other opinions.

I'm not sure about two sites in the same region excluding one another. If you look at the report about Africa that's been published, possible sites in Africa are proposed in areas that are also already represented on the WHL, and that maybe for that reason would not be seconded here on the forum: e.g. Lake Tanganyika, Montane Forests of the Southern Albertine Rift, Tropical Moist Forests of the Upper Guinea Biodiversity Hotspot.

Also, even if both sites are centered on te Bering Strait/Bering Sea, they are still at hundreds of kilometres of distance from one another, which in Europe would mean inscription for both as they would be in different countries.

Author Jurre
Partaker
#130 | Posted: 14 May 2020 20:25 | Edited by: Jurre 
Beringia National Park is also in a different ecoregion, that is among the Global 200 and is not yet represented on the WHL: Chukote coastal tundra (Russia).

So the park would actually offer something different from the other Bering Sea proposal.

The Bering Strait sites would also focus more on the landbridge that once existed between Asia and America.

Author Jurre
Partaker
#131 | Posted: 15 May 2020 09:02 | Edited by: Jurre 
With the "Kızılırmak Delta Wetland and Bird Sanctuary" is was mainly looking for a representative of the Global 200 ecoregion "Anatolian freshwater", but, as was remarked by winterkjm, the reviews on this site were not the best.

So, are there other sites that could represent this ecoregion better? I've been focusing on the ecoregions, and I also see the report about Africa cited by winterkjm uses them as well as a basis.

So, possible representants:
- Lake Van
- Lake Tuz (TWHS)
- Lake Beyşehir National Park with Eflatun Pınar (TWHS)
- Turkish Lakes Region

As for rivers, I don't find any good representants.

Author vantcj1
Partaker
#132 | Posted: 15 May 2020 16:08 | Edited by: vantcj1 
csarica
Sjobe:
2)anatolian seljuks madrasahs

What do you think of this, Can Sarica? I understand that you classified it in the 50-90% probability of inscription and indeed some of its components have already been considered in the
winterkjm:
- Konya-A Capital of Seljuk Civilization

top 50 missing candidate. I remember having read/seen with interest about the architectural input from the Seljuk civilization and was particularly interested by Erzurum's Çifte Minareli and Konya's Ince Minarelli Madrasah, Do you think this serial site has Top 50 potential?

csarica I understand that you haven't classified the "Seljuk Caravanserais from Denizli to Doğubayazıt" in the list provided by Sjobe This is another "site" I became interested in when I was in Architectural School, specially for Aksaray's Sultan Khan, which seems quite well preserved and really interesting. I know that -as per the corresponding connection- there are already 25 WHS with caravanserais, but there is not one of them that features a network of them along a highly important ancient trade route (that may be of course the Silk route site, but it seems that it only has one, at Akyrtas, but it is an archaeological site). If you consider that it may be worthy, I'd put it forward in "Top 50- Europe and North America" forum.

Author vantcj1
Partaker
#133 | Posted: 15 May 2020 16:58 | Edited by: vantcj1 
nfmungard:
I once read that Mies himself cheated according to his own standards as he applied extra, non functional decorations.

Haha, on a contrary vein, I remember reading how appalled he was when people started putting TV antennas in the 860-880 Lake Shore Drive Apartment buildings.

He was always a purist at heart, as is shown by his 1921 proposal of an expressionist skyscraper

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#134 | Posted: 15 May 2020 23:09 | Edited by: winterkjm 
We are undoubtedly reaching a fairly exhaustive discussion on European and North American Top Missing sites, and the US has gotten plenty of attention. However, before we close this board on Monday, I wanted to share an important document. I consider this DOCUMENT to be one of the best resources for the US world heritage program ever produced. In 2007, you could make a request through the National Park Service and this well-made booklet would be sent to you. Included are fantastic pictures and statements of OUV regarding the updated tentative list in 2008 (of which 4 of those nominations were eventually inscribed). However, on page 38 there is a whole section of strong candidates that warrant further study. Some of these sites sought to be included in the 2017 tentative list update, Moravian Bethlehem was added. Some may yet try again this decade.

Properties for Future Consideration

These properties will not necessarily be included in the U.S. Tentative List in the future, but, having applied for consideration in 2007, are considered to have potential that merits further study. At such time as the Tentative List is revised, other properties may also be considered.

CULTURAL PROPERTIES

Colonial Newport, Rhode Island A proposal was made for 14 non-contiguous properties within the Newport Historic District, a National Historic Landmark designated primarily for its Colonial-era architecture, with outstanding examples of adaptations of European high styles to an overseas commercial maritime community. They were designed and built by leading architects, builders, and craftsmen of the 1600s and 1700s. The collection of buildings was proposed to exemplify the early and notable exercise of religious freedom in Rhode Island. This topic does not seem to have strong tangible links to all the buildings proposed, and would need to be supported with a thorough analysis of this complex topic within a larger context. It is possible that the proposal could be reformulated to focus on the importance of Newport's Colonial architecture, which might include a different selection of buildings. A non-contiguous group may present difficulties in nomination.

Eastern State Penitentiary, Pennsylvania Designed by John Haviland and built during 1822-36 in what is now a residential neighborhood of Philadelphia, this former prison occupies approximately 12 acres, surrounded by 30- foot walls. Within, the cellblocks spread from a central observatory like the spokes of a wheel, creating a radial plan. The solitary cells of these blocks each had private adjacent exercise yards as well as heating, ventilation, natural light, water, and sanitary plumbing. The structure embodied the Quaker idea that convicted prisoners could repent and remake their lives, by replacing corporal punishment and ill treatment of prisoners with isolation to encourage reflection combined with labor to provide work skills. The prison's innovative design was copied around the world in about 300 prisons in dozens of countries over a period of more than 100 years, and was a flagship of the social reform movement in the 19th century. Part of the site is now operated as a museum. The U.S. National Commission for UNESCO expressed concern about the physical condition of the structure, as well as how nomination of a penal institution might be received internationally. APPROVED BY PARTICIPANTS IN TOP MISSING FORUM

French Creole Properties of the Mid-Mississippi Valley, Illinois and Missouri This proposal includes seven properties, most built in the late 18th and early 19th centuries: Fort de Chartres, the Church of the Holy Family, the Pierre Menard House, the Felix Valle House, the Amoureux House, the Guibord Valle House, and the Bolduc House. They are grouped in an area spanning about 40 miles on both sides of the Mississippi River south of St. Louis. The four properties in Missouri are in the town of Ste. Genevieve. The buildings exhibit traditional French construction forms combined with American forms and materials. These buildings, which include military and religious structures and homes of early merchants and administrators, are striking evidence of early French efforts to develop and settle the interior of North America. Further work would be needed to document the global significance of the French Colonial presence in this region. The partial reconstruction of Fort de Chartres and the restoration and conservation of the other properties must also be shown to be fully within the international standards for authenticity and integrity.

Gamble House, California Built during 1908-09, this house is a foremost and distinctively American expression of the Arts and Crafts movement of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, in which the craftsmanship used in construction is beautifully expressed, rather than concealed by applied decoration. It is regarded as being the most complete and historically original example of the work of architects Charles S. and Henry M. Greene, who are particularly recognized for their craftsmanship and creative use of wood, and the sensitivity of their landscape design to the topography and climate. It appears appropriate to consider including the Gamble House in a multi-national serial nomination on the international Arts and Grafts movement.

Moravian Bethlehem, Pennsylvania A proposal was made for two 18th-century buildings, the Gemeinhaus (community house), and the Waterworks, to exemplify the Germanic architectural qualities and communal town planning of historic Moravian settlements. There is an ongoing international effort to prepare a multinational World Heritage nomination of Moravian sites in Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands, South Africa, the United Kingdom, and the United States. Except for Christiansfeld in Denmark, none of the other sites are on the most recent Tentative Lists in their respective countries. There is potential for Moravian Bethlehem to form part of such a multinational nomination. It also appears that the Bethlehem community would be better illustrated by a larger grouping of buildings; it might be useful to determine whether all or part of the National Register of Historic Places district surrounding these two buildings may qualify as a National Historic Landmark, a prerequisite for World Heritage nomination. ADDED TO TENTATIVE LIST in 2017

Moundville Site, Alabama This site consists of at least 29 mounds around a plaza, constructed by the people of the Mississippian culture who occupied the site approximately 500-1,000 years ago. Many of the flat-topped pyramids served as platforms for the residences of leaders and for religious purposes. The largest is about 55 feet high and was one of the largest prehistorically constructed features in the present United States. The site is the second largest known center of Mississippian culture after Cahokia Mounds, in southern Illinois, which is a World Heritage Site. Moundville, however, is one of the best preserved of such sites in the United States and reflects at least five developmental stages. This site could be nominated as an extension to the Cahokia Mounds site. The U.S. National Commission for UNESCO recommended that such an extension should be a lower priority than nominations of property types that are not yet represented by World Heritage listings.

Olana State Historic Site, New York This carefully landscaped estate on the Hudson River was developed by the artist Lrederic Church over the years during which he owned the property (1860-1900). The house was designed and furnished in an eclectic blend of styles influenced by his travels. Church, a major figure in the Hudson River School of American landscape painting in the 19th century, composed specific views, in which the house serves as a means by which to actively experience his landscape composition. It was also his home and study and the subject of a number of his paintings. There was uncertainty about Church's international significance as an artist, either individually or as a representative of the Hudson River School, as well as the estate's ability to illustrate it. A number of views from the site of the larger landscape setting would also likely need protection, and the identification of those views and appropriate protective mechanisms would need to be fully elaborated.

Pipestone National Monument, Minnesota The quarries at this site are the only source of catlinite (pipestone), which is significant to a large number of Great Plains Indian tribes, groups, and bands. Catlinite artifacts, though, have been found in ten states and in Canada, and the stone has been used for at least 2,000 years. The stone and I the quarries are the subject of many different sacred origin stories. The ceremonial pipe, or calumet, carved from the stone, used in treaty signing, sweat ceremonies, and vision quests, became widely known to Euro-American culture as the "peace pipe'' through the paintings and writings of George Catlin, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (Song of Hiawatha), and Rudolf Cronau. Today, 48 tribal groups whose native lands stretched over a large part of North America continue to use the quarries. While this site is in many ways unique, more documentation is needed to provide comparisons to other sites around the world to better establish its global significance.

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#135 | Posted: 15 May 2020 23:10 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Shaker Villages, Kentucky, Maine, New Hampshire, and New York A proposal was made for a serial nomination of four Shaker Villages founded in the 18th century: Pleasant Hill, Kentucky, America's largest restored Shaker community; Sabbathday Lake Shaker Village in Maine, the only community with a practicing Shaker presence; Canterbury Shaker Village in New Hampshire; and Mount Lebanon Shaker Village in New York, which served as the spiritual and administrative center of the sect. The Shakers are well known for their Utopian religious communities and for their unique contributions to arts and design, including beautifully proportioned and simply detailed architecture and furniture, as well as music (such as Simple Gifts), foodways, and practical inventions. Shaker culture's influence on other social and humanitarian movements and on design worldwide, particularly the Danish Modern movement, has great potential for a World Heritage nomination. A comparative analysis is needed that clearly establishes which are the best surviving Shaker resources from among the nearly two dozen communities once active in the United States, as well as from British Shaker communities.

Underground Railroad Sites, Ohio The John Rankin and John Parker Houses in the small town of Ripley were proposed to represent the Underground Railroad, which was a clandestine grassroots movement that helped people escape Southern slavery. Though the Underground Railroad directly freed relatively few, its renown and the literary works it inspired contributed to the end of human slavery and serfdom in both the United States and possibly in other countries, such as Brazil, Russia, and Thailand. It was a widespread, often ephemeral network that took many forms, and many sites played a part in it. These two historically related houses are on the north bank of the Ohio River, which formed a major part of the boundary between the slave and free states in pre-Civil War America. The Rev. John Rankin was a long-time white abolitionist; some of those he rescued inspired the novel Uncle Tom's Cabin. John Parker bought his freedom when he was 18 and helped to free numerous others. These two well-documented figures alone cannot adequately represent the story of the Underground Railroad. There is great potential for a World Heritage nomination related to the Underground Railroad, but it should be based on a comprehensive study of the topic that would result in the inclusion of a greater range of sites and locations. In addition to U.S. sites, the phenomenon also involved other countries, especially Canada, but also Mexico, the Caribbean, and to a limited extent some European countries. There is also potential for a nomination that might include a broader network of sites associated with the history of African slavery.

NATURAL PROPERTY

Stellwagen Bank National Marine Sanctuary, Massachusetts This sanctuary was proposed for its importance to humpback whales and other marine life, and for cultural resources that include a number of shipwrecks. A thorough comparison with other sites worldwide, particularly sites associated with whales, would be necessary to establish whether the natural resources are exceptional in a global context. If the quality of the resources merited it, the possibility of a joint proposal with the Dominican Republic, to include the waters to which the whales migrate, might be worth investigating. There is little precedent in the World Heritage program for including the shipwrecks in the marine sanctuary as contributing elements, particularly in the absence of an agreement on the relationship between UNESCO's Convention on the Protection of the Underwater Cultural Heritage and the World Heritage listing process.

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