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Top 50 Missing - 2020 version - Whiteboard

 
 
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Author nfmungard
Partaker
#46 | Posted: 6 May 2020 10:44 
Colvin:
For that matter, in the 1960s Hamburg hosted perhaps the 20th century's most famous band -- anything worth preserving there?

All gone. And I think Jazz would have an easier time getting through. The Apollo?

And I forgot: History of Radio and TV may also be relevant in the USA.

Colvin:
What do you think is unique about these towns in the US?

Hmn. Ellis Islands was just the gateway. If there are any authentic immigrant communities I think this would value. Anyhow. Just Brainstorming.
.

Author Jurre
Partaker
#47 | Posted: 6 May 2020 13:16 | Edited by: Jurre 
nfmungard:
* History of Music: Jazz, Blues, RocknRoll

Again, I think that's more immaterial heritage.

Would we inscribe cathedrals, cloisters and abbeys because of their importance for Gregorian chant? German palaces and churches for their patronage of baroque composers like Bach?

There is Bayreuth, of course, linked to Wagner, but that was also inscribed because of its architecture and period authenticity, and it wasn't even inscribed on the basis of criterium (vi).

So all in all, I think inscribing sites on the basis of music, without other criteria, is going to be difficult. I also fear many recording studios etc will have lost their character of those days.

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#48 | Posted: 6 May 2020 14:12 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Colvin:
My favorite site that the US is pursuing for immigrant heritage is Ellis Island. This would be a rather ironic site for the current government to pursue, unfortunately.

There is also Angel Island in San Francisco Bay. When the immigrants are non-white the famous Lazarus poem "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" becomes less true to reality (compared to Ellis Island), Angel Island has some dark history.

Colvin:
What do you think is unique about these towns in the US?

I always hear the Vancouver Chinatown is more historic than anything that remains in the US. I have been to San Francisco's Chinatown many times, also LA, D.C., NYC, and other cities. None of them would make a great world heritage site. Vancouver's Chinatown on the other hand is a National Historic Site. Has anyone been there?

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#49 | Posted: 6 May 2020 14:44 
Jurre:
So all in all, I think inscribing sites on the basis of music, without other criteria, is going to be difficult. I also fear many recording studios etc will have lost it's character of those days.

You are right. I thought, Jazz could be a nice way to honor African American history, without the Civil Rights Movement. Which was nationally important. But simply terribly overdue.

winterkjm:
There is also Angel Island in San Francisco Bay. When the immigrants are non-white the famous Lazarus poem "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" becomes less true to reality (compared to Ellis Island), Angel Island has some dark history.

The border guards are not really telling the immigrant history. The houses and communities they build would. But seems like a bad idea.

Anyhow, anything on TV and Radio?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_television#Mechanical_television

Author watkinstravel
Partaker
#50 | Posted: 6 May 2020 14:59 
winterkjm:
I always hear the Vancouver Chinatown is more historic than anything that remains in the US.

True. There is a lot of pressure to develop the area. It is a large enough area that pursuing an inscription could at least guarantee a section of authenticity remains intact that would still be better than what else is found in N. America. There are enough original iconic buildings, etc there to be worth an inscription if you were looking to include one. Top 50 though?

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#51 | Posted: 6 May 2020 16:16 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Colvin:
My favorite site that the US is pursuing for immigrant heritage is Ellis Island.

Sjobe:
I have already proposed Cultural Landscape of Canyon in Kamenets-Podilsk which I believe to be one of the most interesting sites in Ukraine.

Colvin:
What's the current status of the Saimaa-Pielinen Lake System proposal on Finland's Tentative list.

Jurre:
As the site "Lower Amur Basin", I'd propose a serial nomination of several nature reserves. I'd choose:
- Anyuysky National Park: a huge park which covers the basin of the Anyuy River. The park is important because it creates an ecological corridor from the low floodplain of the Amur, to the high forested mountains of the Sikhote-Alin. The park is a critical component of the network of protected areas in the middle and lower Amur, particularly because it integrates a continuous habitat from river floodplains, through valley-mountain sub-taiga of Mongolian oak and Korean pine, to mountain ridges. The endangered Amur tiger is a resident species of the park, as are most of the mountain species of the northern Sikhote-Alin. The lower floodplains are important for their support for migratory birds.
- Bolon Nature Reserve: located on the Middle Amur River lowlands adjacent to the south-west of Lake Bolon. The reserve covers the wetlands of international importance. Swamps occupy 80% of the territory. Spring and autumn migrations bring an estimated 1.2 million to the reserve.
- Bureya Nature Reserve: The territory is one of mountain tundra, rivers and lakes, and taiga forests. It includes the headwaters of the left and right tributaries of the Bureya River, part of the lower Amur River basin. The headwaters of many streams are glacial cirques, and lower levels along the rivers feature floodplains and lakes. The reserve is important for large mammals including bear, wolverine and sable.

Sjobe:
Ishak Pasha Palace

These all look like potential Top Missing, I would encourage you to submit an official proposal on the main thread.

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#52 | Posted: 6 May 2020 16:46 | Edited by: nfmungard 
watkinstravel:
True. There is a lot of pressure to develop the area. It is a large enough area that pursuing an inscription could at least guarantee a section of authenticity remains intact that would still be better than what else is found in N. America. There are enough original iconic buildings, etc there to be worth an inscription if you were looking to include one. Top 50 though?

I think it has a certain charm. Also considering that with the Kaiping Dialou we have the results of the money flowing back already inscribed.

To me the Top 50 is the end result (best 50 sites), not the total sits in the mix.

Author Colvin
Partaker
#53 | Posted: 6 May 2020 17:57 
Jurre:
So all in all, I think inscribing sites on the basis of music, without other criteria, is going to be difficult. I also fear many recording studios etc will have lost their character of those days.

I agree there should be a story told if there are any sites to be pursued regarding music. I can't help thinking that the Plantin-Moretus Museum with its history of printing might provide a template if someone were to pursue a nomination for a particular recording studio. I do share the concern about authenticity, since the recording industry continues to evolve.

nfmungard:
You are right. I thought, Jazz could be a nice way to honor African American history, without the Civil Rights Movement. Which was nationally important. But simply terribly overdue.

I do like your suggestion of the Apollo Theater -- it was an important venue for helping integrate African American culture into American culture. I wonder if it could be pulled into a nomination for historic buildings of Harlem, highlighting the Harlem Renaissance.

nfmungard:
Anyhow, anything on TV and Radio?

Not an area that I have strong opinions on. Historic Hollywood has already had a nomination for film. Television seems to me just a smaller version of that, and some sets/locales might even be the same. What should be preserved for posterity? As for radio, what would you think would be most important?

winterkjm:
There is also Angel Island in San Francisco Bay. When the immigrants are non-white the famous Lazarus poem "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" becomes less true to reality (compared to Ellis Island), Angel Island has some dark history.

Very true -- the Chinese Exclusion Act (an unfortunate result of the First Transcontinental Railroad) wasn't the best look the US has had with regard to immigration. Sadly we're not doing too much better these days. Angel Island might make a good extension to Ellis Island if the US were willing to tell a complete story.

nfmungard:
The border guards are not really telling the immigrant history. The houses and communities they build would.

In large cities and small towns you may find immigrant neighborhoods that shape the local stores and restaurants, but for the most part in the US, immigrant groups adapt to an American way of life, where we act as a melting pot. I'm hard-pressed to think of any good examples of cities or towns in the US (beyond Chinatowns) that have kept their unique culture for generations and would be worth recognizing. Though Harlem, which I mentioned above, may be something to pursue.

The US does have a transnational nomination on its list, the Moravian Church Settlements in Bethelehem, Pennsylvania. I don't think the average American would be able to tell you where the Moravians settled, much less who they are. The Amish, or Pennsylvania Dutch, on the other hand, do have a distinctive culture in the US.

winterkjm:
Vancouver's Chinatown on the other hand is a National Historic Site. Has anyone been there?

I have been there and agree with the others. It is worth visiting and preserving. If a Chinatown from North America were to be submitted, this would be the best choice. But as I mentioned earlier, Chinatowns can be found worldwide, and the first one was actually in the Philippines in the 16th century.

Author Jurre
Partaker
#54 | Posted: 6 May 2020 19:37 | Edited by: Jurre 
I'm not sure about the way we're doing this now. Are we first discussing any proposal that could be made here, before actually proposing in the Europe-North America thread?

If so, than I would like to see what the support would be for a Volga Delta nomination. The Volga Delta is cited as one of the "Large river deltas" in the "Global 200: Freshwater ecoregions". There are no WHS that focus on the Volga River and there are not even any WHS close by.

I would propose the Astrakhan Nature Reserve as the best representative of this site. It includes the islands and wetlands of the Volga Delta and is a RAMSAR wetlands site of international importance.

Author Jurre
Partaker
#55 | Posted: 6 May 2020 19:57 | Edited by: Jurre 
There's another site in France that I feel should be on the List and that is Nîmes. But due to the overcrowding of European city centres and Roman antiquity sites, it's probably too late for Nîmes to ever make it onto the list. Yet I'm curious to see if the refusal would be unanimous, or if some of you would say it merits a spot on the WHL.

Author FredericM
Partaker
#56 | Posted: 6 May 2020 20:13 | Edited by: FredericM 
I don't want to flood the main thread with Canadian proposals but I think scientific, industrial and 20th century sites might be missing for Canada. Here are some suggestion:

- Quebec Bridge: It is a road, rail and pedestrian bridge across the lower Saint Lawrence River completed in 1917. The Quebec Bridge has still the longest cantilever bridge span in the world (Inscribed Forth Bridge is second). It was the all-categories longest span in the world until the Ambassador Bridge was completed in 1929.

- Habitat 67: It is a model community and housing complex in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, designed by Israeli-Canadian architect Moshe Safdie. Habitat 67 is widely considered an architectural landmark and one of the most recognizable buildings in both Montreal and Canada. As one of the major symbols of Expo 67, which was attended by over 50 million people during the 6 months it was open, Habitat 67 gained worldwide acclaim as a "fantastic experiment" and "architectural wonder". This experiment was and is regarded as both a success and failure—it "redefined urban living" and has since become "a very successful co-op", but at the same time ultimately failed to revolutionize affordable housing or launch a wave of prefabricated, modular development as Safdie had envisioned.

- Heart's Content Cable Station (future transnational T site of Canada with Ireland): It is an exceptionally well-preserved monument to the world's first successful trans-oceanic submarine telegraph cable in 1866. This Cable Station, together with its sister site in Valentia, Ireland, were the respective western and eastern termini of the grandiose mid-19th century plan to connect North America and Europe via an 1886 nautical mile submarine telegraph cable.

- CN Tower: It is a 553.3 m-high (1,815.3 ft) concrete communications and observation tower located in Downtown Toronto, Ontario, Canada. It was completed in 1976. The CN Tower held the record for the world's tallest free-standing structure for 32 years until 2007 when it was surpassed by the Burj Khalifa, and was the world's tallest tower until 2009 when it was surpassed by the Canton Tower. It is now the ninth tallest free-standing structure in the world and remains the tallest free-standing structure on land in the Western Hemisphere. In 1995, the CN Tower was declared one of the modern Seven Wonders of the World by the American Society of Civil Engineers. It also belongs to the World Federation of Great Towers.

And one more natural site:
- Torngat Mountains and Kuururjuaq National Parks: Precambrian gneisses that comprise the Torngat Mountains are among the oldest on Earth and have been dated at roughly 3.6 to 3.9 billion years old. The ranges of the Torngat Mountains are separated by deep fjords and finger lakes surrounded by sheer rock walls. Currently, there are over 100 active small mountain glaciers in the Torngat Mountains with a total of about 195 ice masses in the region. Caribou travel through the Torngat Mountains, and polar bears roam along the coast. Numerous species of vegetation common to the Arctic region of Canada are also found in the Torngat Mountains.

Author jonathanfr
Partaker
#57 | Posted: 6 May 2020 20:13 
Jurre:
There's another site in France that I feel should be on the List and that is Nîmes. But due to the overcrowding of European city centres and Roman antiquity sites, it's probably too late for Nîmes to ever make it onto the list. Yet I'm curious to see if the refusal would be unanimous, or if some of you would say it merits a spot on the WHL.

According to this link, the Maison Carrée alone should be proposed soon and would have a chance of succeeding.

http://www.jesoutiensnimes.fr/fr/

Author FredericM
Partaker
#58 | Posted: 6 May 2020 20:16 
Jurre:
Are we first discussing any proposal that could be made here, before actually proposing in the Europe-North America thread?

I don't think it's mandatory. I see this thread more as a tool to discuss vague proposals, odd ideas, sites we are unsure about or to avoid patriotism as I just did. I think we can still go ahead right in the main thread for good proposals.

Author Colvin
Partaker
#59 | Posted: 7 May 2020 00:12 | Edited by: Colvin 
Jurre:
If so, than I would like to see what the support would be for a Volga Delta nomination. The Volga Delta is cited as one of the "Large river deltas" in the "Global 200: Freshwater ecoregions". There are no WHS that focus on the Volga River and there are not even any WHS close by.

You're absolutely right, and I would support a nomination like this. The Astrakhan Nature Reserve that you recommend was one of Russia's first nature preserves, founded in 1919. The delta supports Russia's well-known beluga sturgeon, as well as a lot of waterfowl (the delta is apparently the only place in Russia where both flamingoes and pelicans can be found in the same vicinity). The wetlands are being challenged by industrialization and agricultural run-off, so they should be protected.

FredericM:
I don't want to flood the main thread with Canadian proposals but I think scientific, industrial and 20th century sites might be missing for Canada.

I will submit two of these for you, since I find them fascinating: Heart's Content with Valentia, Ireland; and Habitat 67 -- great suggestions!

FredericM:
And one more natural site:
- Torngat Mountains and Kuururjuaq National Parks:

In regard to this site, how different is it from the Sirmilik National Park and Tallurutiup Imanga National Marine Conservation Area that you already proposed? Are the landforms (also in the Arctic cordillera) or fauna distinctly different? Should it be an extension?

Author Sjobe
Partaker
#60 | Posted: 7 May 2020 05:47 | Edited by: Sjobe 
Colvin:
What's the current status of the Saimaa-Pielinen Lake System proposal on Finland's Tentative list. Would that be a site you would be in favor of?

I would be in favor of it but it is at the end of its road. Here is some information of it from year 2007 (Google Translate translates the headline wrong but don't mind). Then an article on South Karelian newspaper from year 2012 tells that the project has been proven impossible.

In addition, the Finnish Heritage Agency is going to update the Finnish tentative list in near future. See my post from November 2019.

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