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Top 50 Missing - 2020 version

 
 
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Author Assif
Partaker
#136 | Posted: 4 May 2020 04:00 
winterkjm:
maybe a tad over-excited to make proposals (myself included in my ambitious first post)

I am not sure. There are a lot of viable ideas on the thread and at the end we are going to compensate for our Western bias with regional slot allocations (which we still need to discuss) which will guarantee Europe/North America is not overrepresented. Moreover, I completely agree that Europe is obviously overrepresented but Northern America (or the Pacific) aren't and many proposals are from these areas, technically included in this Unesco zone.

Author Colvin
Partaker
#137 | Posted: 4 May 2020 12:00 
winterkjm:
So are we doing the moratorium for 1 day?

Let's say Monday Paris time 6pm?

[Puts on helmet, sticks head up from the trenches]

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#138 | Posted: 4 May 2020 16:34 
FredericM:
Regarding this one, no matter how important fur trade was, I don't think it is a Top 50 site. I believe top missing sites should stand as exceptional on their own, rather than reflecting important parts of history, events or cultural traits. I think the same apply for onsens, pubs, cinemas, and, to a lesser extent, car factories. But this just my humble opinion.

Kind of disagree. I think we should rate each sites on two scores:
Y/N - Favor inscription. -> Find sites that are missing, e.g. because countries have too short lists.
0.5-5 Stars. -> Find great sites that are missing.

I actually enjoy the exercise of finding valuable sites in underrepresented countries more than finding those great sites.

Author FredericM
Partaker
#139 | Posted: 4 May 2020 20:24 
nfmungard:
I actually enjoy the exercise of finding valuable sites in underrepresented countries more than finding those great sites.

I totally agree with this, but I'm not sure to understand how it applies to my comment. Canada, USA, Japan and UK are definitely not countries with too short lists. Would it be possible to find obscure sites related to such universal and important topics in much underrepresented countries?

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#140 | Posted: 4 May 2020 20:38 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Can I propose a couple basic guidelines as we continue this TOP Missing activity? I know this is late in the process, but . . .

* Try to avoid, dominating the discussion (I will check myself here as well)
* Clarify between fully-realized proposals and filling gaps/themes worthy of discussion
* Nominating a serial property, try to identify major components
* Re-editing your own recent post (to add info) instead of a dozen short posts make the pages a bit more manageable

In 2014 Meltwaterfalls, Solvigant, and Khuft really enriched the discussions and remain unheard for this region (granted we are only approaching day 3). There are also plenty of travelers who are less present because of their children, work and other challenges related to COVID-19. Let's be cognizant that at our current pace, we could have 40 pages of forum posts before we move on to the Latin America/Caribbean region. For people that are more busy at the moment, this becomes less fun and more of a chore.

In previous years we actually had a rules page! Rules Top 50

The primary rule we definitely have been breaking (me included) is nominating sites from your own country. I began the Europe and North American region Top 50 Missing with 9 proposals (7 from the United States). The ship has sailed on this. Restricting people from nominating sites from their country has pro's and con's, you might be preventing many insightful proposals from people with first hand experience, but the con is we may get a flood of patriotic proposals. At this point, the best we can do is limit our home country nominations to what we individuals feel are the best, gap-filling/unrepresented, most worthy sites for Top Missing. I have have been largely limiting myself to "Contribution to arguments where one has been "nominated"." and just summarizing what already has been proposed/approved.

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#141 | Posted: 5 May 2020 02:05 
FredericM:
I totally agree with this, but I'm not sure to understand how it applies to my comment. Canada, USA, Japan and UK are definitely not countries with too short lists. Would it be possible to find obscure sites related to such universal and important topics in much underrepresented countries?

I would argue that Canada, USA and Japan are underrepresented given their size. UK has a really weird list which focuses way too heavily on industrialization and misses out loads of things that make the UK unique.

winterkjm:
* Try to avoid, dominating the discussion (I will check myself here as well)
* Clarify between fully-realized proposals and filling gaps/themes worthy of discussion
* Nominating a serial property, try to identify major components
* Re-editing your own recent post (to add info) instead of a dozen short posts make the pages a bit more manageable

I think the proper way would be to have separate threads. A proposal thread per region. And a brainstorming thread. The brainstorming thread wouldn't even have to be regional.

winterkjm:
Meltwaterfalls, Solvigant, and Khuft

At least, for Ian it's about family and time management ;). Paul has been quieter of late in general.

I also feel that the forum software has plenty of downsides. Pages are too short. We can't have a sticky first post (which would be the one that would be continuously edited to show current state). I was looking into it, but ... time.

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#142 | Posted: 5 May 2020 02:34 
nfmungard:
I think the proper way would be to have separate threads. A proposal thread per region. And a brainstorming thread. The brainstorming thread wouldn't even have to be regional.

I think this is a really good proposal, but probably too late for this "first round"? The question is what comes next? I believe you favor another round to narrow down the proposals, perhaps this format would lend it self to a 2nd round?

I am fine either way, 2nd round of refining/pruning for each region or going into some type of final voting stage for each region.

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#143 | Posted: 5 May 2020 03:01 
winterkjm:
I think this is a really good proposal, but probably too late for this "first round"? The question is what comes next? I believe you favor another round to narrow down the proposals, perhaps this format would lend it self to a 2nd round?

i just went ahead and moved my open ideas there. more to come.

Author FredericM
Partaker
#144 | Posted: 5 May 2020 16:59 
nfmungard:
i just went ahead and moved my open ideas there. more to come.

Great idea.

winterkjm:
The question is what comes next?

That's what I was wondering as well. Moreover, I wasn't here at the time of the last exercise and don't know what was done. I will throw some ideas about how I see the next steps.

We will end up with massive lists for each region. I would suggest that each community member would pick his 50 (or any different number) to fill his own top 50 missing (but without ordering them at this point). I would favor some quota, such as at least 15 naturals and 15 culturals, and at least 5 from each region (but again those numbers could differ).

We would then compile those lists. The 50 sites most often mentioned will be our Top 50 sites. We should respect the quotas at this step. And then the group discussion goes on again to determine the OUV of each nomination. Each community member would do its own sorting of sites from 1 to 50. Those would be compiled and points according to ranking (e.g. 50 points for #1, 49 for #2 and so on). Sites would be ranked globally according to this.

To me, it seems to be fair, interesting, pertinent and not too time and resources consuming.

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#145 | Posted: 5 May 2020 17:39 
FredericM:
We will end up with massive lists for each region. I would suggest that each community member would pick his 50 (or any different number) to fill his own top 50 missing (but without ordering them at this point). I would favor some quota, such as at least 15 naturals and 15 culturals, and at least 5 from each region (but again those numbers could differ).

Picking the best 50, I really failed at last time. It's just too hard to figure out what sites I like best, especially, in long lists. I think it would be easier to score a long list all sites you want and we then compute scores as we already do: should be inscribed y/n. greatness 0-5*.

Author watkinstravel
Partaker
#146 | Posted: 5 May 2020 21:28 
FredericM:
I would favor some quota, such as at least 15 naturals and 15 culturals, and at least 5 from each region (but again those numbers could differ).

I generally favour this concept without making it too regionally restrictive. I think there should be some way to separate out the natural from the cultural sites as it is too easy to heavily bias towards one or the other. Then integrate them all back together at the end.

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#147 | Posted: 5 May 2020 22:00 | Edited by: winterkjm 
If we don't do a an official vote (survey, not forum) that is extremely visible on the Home page, the whole process will be too limited. Last time, we actually had really good participation, Els also sent out an email to all users (I believe) which ended the final stage ended up with more than 100 voters. If we do some type of final list on the forum, where everyone has to post, we would be very fortunate to get 20 voters.

Author Assif
Partaker
#148 | Posted: 14 May 2020 11:58 | Edited by: Assif 
winterkjm:
Maybe we should have a special addendum (2-day extension for Africa when all regions are complete)?

I think we have learnt through the process and are dedicating much closer attention to North America and Europe than we did to other regions. I would be happy to analyse Asia and Australia's nature the same as we did for Russia or North America. I would personally favour granting an extension/addendum to Asia-Pacific too.
It would be interesting to analyse Australia/China/India on a state/province basis.

Author Jurre
Partaker
#149 | Posted: 14 May 2020 17:02 | Edited by: Jurre 
EDIT: Comment moved to Whiteboard.

Author Colvin
Partaker
#150 | Posted: 14 May 2020 17:32 | Edited by: Colvin 
Jurre:
I'm not sure about the name "Bering Strait - Alaska Maritime National Wildlife Refuge and Commander Islands" of the proposal.

I'm not sure I see your point, unless it is about a naming convention. The Alaska Maritime National Wildlife Refuge does include portions on the strait, but it is true that the bulk of this nomination isn't the Bering Strait; that said, the sites proposed do cover much of the geology, ecology, and flora and fauna from this part of the world. Nevertheless, this should probably be taken to the Whiteboard.

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