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Top 50 Missing - Voting 2014

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Author elsslots
#76 | Posted: 28 Feb 2014 06:46 
If you get 100 it would make a good Family Feud / Family Fortunes question!

100 exactly now!

Author clyde
#77 | Posted: 28 Feb 2014 07:56 
WOOOOHOOOO !!! Well done! Can't wait for the results now!

Author mrayers
#78 | Posted: 28 Feb 2014 16:44 
Well, that was very interesting.

My compliments to Els for organizing the poll.

I had 7 of my selections make the top 20 and 6 more from 21-50, so I think that is pretty good.

However, there were many more I wish I could have voted for, and as I said before, I think the whole list should be inscribed!

I hope I will get to visit some of these "missing" sites someday, so at least they won't be missing for me.


Author clyde
#79 | Posted: 28 Feb 2014 17:03 
16 of my 20 votes made it to the Top 50 missing :)

Author Durian
#80 | Posted: 28 Feb 2014 19:43 | Edited by: Durian 
Congratulations, Els. This is a great success with 100 voters! Happy with my original proposal Schwedagon Stupa :)

Author Solivagant
#81 | Posted: 1 Mar 2014 03:11 | Edited by: Solivagant 
The biggest surprise to me is the position of Oxford/Cambridge at No 2! I would never have guessed it.
And achieved without significant "home country support" either as far as I can see. Certainly neither Meltwaterfalls nor myself. In my case at least that was partly from a basic disinclination to vote for anything from my own country on the basis of potential bias (I note one voter who only voted for 4 sites - all from his homeland) and partly because I am not sure that the buildings themselves add a lot to what is already on the List compared with many other sites.

However - It says something about the workdwide "brand image" of those 2 institutions that they should, to this day, have such a hold on the imagination of what was a pretty "worldwide" set of voters. From a quick survey only sub Saharan Africa was unrepresented.

I wonder how many have actually visited the towns and what the "driver" was in choosing to vote for them?. I know that both figure heavily on the tour route of the growing number of Chinese tourists in UK. In the case of Cambridge this owes something to a poem by a Chinese poet - Xu Zhimo. "Saying Goodbye to Cambridge Again" is apparently taught in every single primary school in China!!

Author elsslots
#82 | Posted: 1 Mar 2014 03:21 
The biggest surprise to me is the position of Oxford/Cambridge at No 2!

It actually was the no. 1 for a day or two (a change I reported a while back on this thread). Otherwise, Bagan has been at the top spot all the time from the start.

In general, I think the Top 10 shows mostly people vote for what they know of (or heard about). But 11-20 is very strong I believe.

Author meltwaterfalls
#83 | Posted: 1 Mar 2014 03:55 
From looking at the list it would seem that being well known helps a lot with a high placing. But there's are still some very interesting sites in the top 50.

Maybe I don't give Oxbridge enough credit, I think they are nice especially Cambridge, but I certainly wouldn't say they are the in the top two sites missing from the world heritage list.

Perhaps it shows the concept of high heritage, or a view of heritage being the product of the elite. Or more probable perhaps it is just a Brit responding to anything to do with Oxbridge by trying to bring class into the equation :)

Author evilweevil
#84 | Posted: 1 Mar 2014 04:45 
I was the one who nominated Oxford and Cambridge a while ago, and I was also massively surprised at the high ranking - I thought only a handful of people besides myself would vote for them. The idea came on a Britain trip and a visit to Oxford last summer (actually, I just stayed there because it's close to Blenheim Palace), and I was very impressed by the town, the colleges, and the museums (and yes, there are loads of Chinese tourists, mostly because of Harry Potter, I guess...). It's not that I think that Oxbridge would fill a major gap in the list, but I do believe that in most other countries, these 2 towns would have been inscribed early on, with the first batch of nominations (similarly, I don't understand why places like Windsor Castle and York are not on the list, not even the tentative one). And the combination of well-preserved old towns with historically and scientifically important colleges and world-class museums is quite unique in the world, I think.

Author meltwaterfalls
#85 | Posted: 1 Mar 2014 05:25 
In regards to evilweevil's points I think they are all very valid points. I think for me I have an almost reverse patriotism. Also the sites in the UK that I enjoy most are the ones most different from my home, hence my love of north welsh castles and Edinburgh.
Last year I was very happy to see Coimbra added, but no offence intended both Oxford and Cambridge are certainly better examples of a European university town, have a more significant role in terms of academic impact and have many buildings that are at least the equal of Coimbra.

Likewise for Windsor and York, both could have been inscribed early on and would fit in well. I guess they wouldn't bring much more to the list now and it doesn't really fit in with the UK thinking on heritage at the moment.

I am very happy to see Bagan as undoubted number one though. Only one to get the support of over half the voters. I'm more of a mind to work out why 46 people didn't vote for it.

Author hubert
#86 | Posted: 1 Mar 2014 06:09 | Edited by: hubert 
Apart from Oxford/Cambridge, I'm surprised that no.1 has 'only' 54 votes, and no.2 has less than 50% approval. I've expected a more skewed distribution at the top, indicates that there are no 'obviously' missing sites.
Also that Greece is the country with two among top10. If you also count Ephesus as site of Greek culture, we have even three.
Some others I've expected with a higher rank, eg Nan Madol or Naica.

Author Khuft
#87 | Posted: 1 Mar 2014 06:34 
I voted for Oxford/Cambridge especially because of how unique some of the buildings there are - in particular King's College chapel in Cambridge or the Radcliffe camera in Oxford.

Author winterkjm
#88 | Posted: 1 Mar 2014 11:52 | Edited by: winterkjm 
I tried to be as objective as possible. Also I considered missing gaps and over-represented regions. Therefore, the only European site I voted for was Svalbard. And I limited my US choices to 2. Some in this forum are aware that I am passionate about Korea, but I could not vote for the Korean nomination for Top 20.

Overall, the list is very good. In my opinion, too many European sites, but perhaps worthy nominations (just not Top 50). I am surprised by the German Castle in the Top 5! Also both the Panama and Suez Canals. Considering American nominations, the Chicago School nomination failed, but Mt. Rushmore made it! Surprise, and a bit disappointed!

It really was a mix of exceptional nominations and a popularity contest equally blended, which is not necessarily negative. This was a great activity, I had a lot of fun. Thanks Els!

Author nfmungard
#89 | Posted: 1 Mar 2014 12:47 
Voted for 12 of Top 20 if my count is correct. I had no image of Bagan, so I missed it. And I thought I had voted for Ephesos which turns out I didn't.

Re Oxford / Cambridge: Two of the earliest and still existing universities. Pretty obvious choice . Having had a close look at the UK sites to plan my travels, I have to say, their submissions are a bid strange to fathom. Oxbridge should have been submitted 20 years ago, possibly each town separately.

In Top 20 only Neuschwanenstein seems questionable to me. There is a reason Germany has not yet put it forward (but we plan to). Yes, it's a monumental site. But it's of limited artistic value. The throne room is a copy from Wartburg. You can't even call it a castle. It's a modern copy of romanticized castles, using industrial age construction technology ... Not sure it should be a whs.

Author Solivagant
#90 | Posted: 2 Mar 2014 03:28 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Oxbridge should have been submitted 20 years ago, possibly each town separately.

Cambridge was submitted 25 years ago in 1989 but ICOMOS wanted an even bigger area than that which was nominated ("Cambridge Backs and Colleges") and it got deferred. As a result neither Cambridge nor Oxford want to be inscribed and both opted out in the most recent UK Tentative List "competition".

This news item from 2004 shows the "less than enthusiastic" response to the suggestion that Cambridge might throw its hat into the ring htm

We have discussed Oxford earlier on this forum - I just don't think that the Colleges or the local councils want to be "bothered" with all the extra hassle. It would appear from our Top 50 missing that the the List "needs" Oxbridge more than they "need" an entry on the List!!

It might be interesting to speculate on the comparison between the attitudes of Oxbridge and e.g Heidelberg on this matter!

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