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Top 50 missing - 2014 version

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Author clyde
#106 | Posted: 15 Jan 2014 04:07 
Go ahead.

Author hubert
#107 | Posted: 15 Jan 2014 05:15 
First, I want to say that I can accept the voting procedure suggested by winterkjm and others, it certainly will result in a representative list.
However, I would prefer a voting with only one or two rounds, more voting options for each and, most important, a certain threshold of a minimum of votes to qualify for inclusion in the Top-list.
My major objection is, that we aim at 50 sites (or any other fixed number), which is rather arbitrary.

But as I said, I would agree with the suggested procedure. But I would also suggest not to persist in a fixed number in the future. For instance: it is likely that some sites on our list will be inscribed within the next years. In this case, we should not substitute these sites just to complete the list again to 50. In contrast, the charm of such a "missing list" is to see the list shrinking and whether the WHC "follow our suggestions".

And I would support the suggestion of Solivagant to establish a procedure to withdraw nominations from the list or to add new ones, without repeating the whole voting procedure.

Author winterkjm
#108 | Posted: 15 Jan 2014 05:38 | Edited by: winterkjm 
My major objection is, that we aim at 50 sites (or any other fixed number), which is rather arbitrary.

In regards to this, perhaps we continue to vote in rounds of 10 until candidates no longer receive (3) or more votes. This would prevent sites with little consensus from being included. This could occur before or after 50, difficult to tell. Depends on how much people vote and how much consensus is indicated in our selections. For example, if we voted in Round 5 and only 6 sites had (3) or more votes. Then we would end at Top 46 Missing.

At this point I am perfectly happy to accept whatever Els feels works best. I've made suggestions that I think generally make sense, but there has been plenty of good ideas thrown around.

Author kkanekahn
#109 | Posted: 15 Jan 2014 22:51 
, if there were 8 frontrunner sites with the most votes, and 3 other sites with the same amount of votes, then only the first 8 would become Top 50 Missing.

we aim at 50 sites (or any other fixed number), which is rather arbitrary.

However I would like to include 11 sites rather than 8 if there is a tie. For example, after selecting 4 sites, if there is a tie between 8 sites, then it is better to include 12 sites to the list instead of 4.
In last round also we should not restrict to 50. We can see the previous list consists of 61 sites.(Now 3 sites are removed).

Author winterkjm
#110 | Posted: 29 Jan 2014 11:43 
I assume Els is recently back or concluding her trip to Mexico as I post here.

Should we then move forward about selecting the New Top 50 Missing? Perhaps starting in February. We've had a fairly in-depth discussion about processes, procedures, and guidelines in regards to voting for the Top 50 missing. No universal agreement, but some consensus was established.

If there are no objections, perhaps we can continue (soon) on the general procedure loosely agreed upon. I would support Els and her judgment to select whichever voting framework or changes that she feels work best.

Looking forward to voting!

Author meltwaterfalls
#111 | Posted: 30 Jan 2014 06:05 
I'm happy to create the Survey Monkey bits once everything is finalised.

After this one is done perhaps we can raise to the challenge Els put forward in her recent reviews and come up with a top 50 to cull :)

Author winterkjm
#112 | Posted: 31 Jan 2014 14:07 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Afghanistan - Band-E-Amir – N – NEW (on TL)
Afghanistan - City of Herat – C – NEW (on TL)
Angola - Quiηama National Park – N – ORIG
Antarctica (claimed by New Zealand) - Ross Island – M – ORIG
Argentina / Peru – Railways of the Andes – C – ORIG
Australia - Cape York and the islands of the Torres Strait – M – NEW
Austria - Modern Legacy of Vienna – C – ORIG
Belgium - Westhoek: places of memory and monuments of the Great War – C – ORIG
Bhutan - Dzongs of Bhutan – C – ORIG
Bolivia / Peru - Lake Titicaca – M – ORIG
Botswana - Okavango Delta – N – NEW (on TL)
Brazil - Kuhikugu – C – NEW
Burkina Faso - Peaks of Sindou – N – ORIG
Canada / USA - Klondike and the Gold Rush Trails – C – ORIG
Chile - Monte Verde – N – NEW
Chile - Torres del Paine National Park – N – NEW
China - Tashilunpo Monastery in Tibet – C – ORIG
China - Mt Kailash – M – NEW
China / Kyrgyzstan / Kazakhstan - Silk Roads – C – NEW (on TL)
China - The Grand Canal – C – NEW (on TL)
Colombia - Ciudad Perdida – C – ORIG
Cyprus (North) - Fortified City of Famagusta – C – ORIG
Egypt / Israel - Marine Reserves of Sinai – N – ORIG
Egypt - Suez Canal – C – ORIG
Egypt - Alexandria, ancient remains and the new library – C – NEW (on TL)
Egypt - Pharaonic Temples of Kom Ombo and Edfu – C – NEW (on TL)
France / India - Vers une architecture: Major Buildings of Le Corbusier – C – ORIG
France - Devils Island (on French Guiana) – M – ORIG
France - Drift Passes of Rangiroa, French Polynesia – N – NEW
France - Forests of Southern New Caledonia – N – NEW
France / Fiji / Tonga / Samoa / USA (Hawaii) - Rainforests of Polynesia – N – NEW ( 2/5 on TL)
France - La Grotte ornιe Chauvet-Pont d'Arc – C – NEW (on TL)
Germany - Olympic Park in Munich – C – ORIG
Germany / Switzerland / Poland - Divided Cities along the German Border – C – ORIG
Germany - Neuschwanstein Castle – C – NEW
Germany - Tempelhof Airport, Berlin – C – NEW
Germany - Speicherstadt and Chilehaus with Kontorhaus District – C – NEW (on TL)
Ghana - Sumbrungu Painted Houses – C – ORIG
Greece - Diolkos: Ancient Railways – C – ORIG
Greece - Minoan palaces of Crete – C – ORIG
Greece - Cultural Landscape of Santorini – C – ORIG
Guyana - Kaieteur National Park, Iwokrama Forest and the Kanuku Mountains – N – NEW
Iceland - Vatnajφkull National Park – N – NEW (on TL)
India - Andaman Islands – M – ORIG
India - Amritsar - C – ORIG
India - Varanasi – C – ORIG
India - Palitana – C – ORIG
India - Chhatris (cenotaphs) of Orchha – C – NEW
India - Kangchendzonga National Park – N – NEW (on TL)
India - Meenakshi Temple in Madurai – C – NEW
India - Dilwara Temples at Mt Abu – C – NEW
Indonesia - Tana Toraja Cultural Landscape – C – ORIG
Iran - Towers of Silence – C – ORIG
Iraq - Ur – C – ORIG
Iraq - Taq-I-Kisra (Arch of Ctesiphon) – C – ORIG
Iraq - The Sacred Complex of Babylon – C – NEW (on TL)
Ireland - Island of Inishmore – C – ORIG
Israel - Triple-arch Gate at Dan & Sources of the Jordan – C – NEW (on TL)
Italy - Scrovegni's Chapel – C – NEW (on TL)
Kazakhstan / USA - Baikonur Cosmodrome / Cape Canaveral – C – ORIG
Laos - Sites Mιgalithiques de la province de Xieng Khouang – C – NEW (on TL)
Lebanon - Ensemble du site naturel de la rιgion du Chouf avec les monuments et les sites – archιologiques qui s'y trouvent – C – NEW (on TL)
Mexico - Copper Canyon – N – ORIG
Mexico - Cenotes of the Yucatan – N – ORIG
Mexico – Naica Cave: Cave of the Crystals – N – NEW
Micronesia (Federated States of) - Nan Madol – C – ORIG
Mongolia / China - Great Gobi Desert - N - New (on TL)
Myanmar – Bagan – C – ORIG
Myanmar - Shwedagon Pagoda – C – ORIG
Myanmar - Wooden Monasteries of Konbaung Period: Ohn Don, Sala, Pakhangyi, Pakhannge, Legaing, Sagu, Shwe-Kyaung (Mandalay) – C – NEW (on TL)
Netherlands - Panorama Mesdag – C – ORIG
Nigeria - Benin Iya / Sungbo' s Eredo – C – NEW (on TL)
Norway – Svalbard – N – ORIG
Oman - Jebel Shams, Wadi Nakhur, and Wadi Ghul – M – ORIG
Palestine Territories - Mount Gerizim: the holiest Samaritan site near Nablus – C – ORIG
Palestine Territories - Jericho – C – ORIG
Panama - Panama Canal – C – ORIG
Papua New Guinea (incl. ext.) - Middle and Upper Sepik – M – ORIG
Papua New Guinea - The Sublime Karsts of Papua New Guinea – M – NEW (on TL)
Pakistan – Concordia – N – ORIG
Peru - Huaca de la Luna and Huaca del Sol – C – NEW
Peru / Argentina / Bolivia / Chile / Colombia / Ecuador - Sistema Vial Andino/Qhapaq Ρan – C – NEW (on TL)
Philippines - Coron Island Natural Biotic Area – M – NEW (on TL)
Philippines - El Nido-Taytay Managed Resource Protected Area – N – NEW (on TL)
Russia - Communist heritage of Volgograd – C – ORIG
Russia - The Soviet Architecture of Moscow – C – ORIG
Russia - Tobolsk – C – ORIG
Russia - Transiberian Railway – C – ORIG
Russia - Kolyma Highway (the Road of Bones) – C – ORIG
Russia - Lena Delta – N – NEW
Saudi Arabia - Mecca, Kaaba – C – ORIG
Serbia - Synagogue of Subotica – C – NEW
South Korea - Southwestern Coast Tidal Flats – N – NEW (on TL)
Syria - Ebla (Tell Mardikh) – C – NEW (on TL)
Spain - Guggenheim Museum Bilbao, Frank Gehry – C – NEW
Somalia - Laas Gaal – C – NEW
Trinidad and Tobago - La Brea Pitch Lake – N – ORIG
Turkey - The Archaeological Site of Gφbeklitepe – C – NEW (on TL)
Turkey - Ephesus – C – NEW (on TL)
Ukraine - Chernobyl – C – ORIG
Ukraine - Palaces of Yalta – C – ORIG
Ukraine / Russia - Mammoth Bone Burials – C – NEW
United Kingdom - Infrastructure of the Industrial Revolution in Britain – C – ORIG
United Kingdom - Historic University Towns of Oxford and Cambridge – C – NEW
United Kingdom (South Georgia) - Salisbury Plains, Grytviken – M – NEW
United States - Latte Stones of the Mariana Islands – C – ORIG
United States - Major Buildings of Frank Lloyd Wright – C – ORIG
United States - Chicago School of Architecture – C – NEW
United States - Death Valley National Park – N – NEW
United States - Ford River Rouge Complex & Highland Plant – C – NEW
United States - Golden Gate Bridge – C – NEW
United States - Hollywood Studios & Movie Palaces – C – NEW
United States - Mount Rushmore – C – NEW
United States - Petrified Forest National Park – N – NEW (on TL)
United States (Puerto Rico) - Taino Ceremonial site of Caguana – C – NEW
Vanuatu - Tanna Island – M – ORIG

Author winterkjm
#113 | Posted: 31 Jan 2014 14:11 | Edited by: winterkjm 
I do believe this is the FINAL list as it stands.

***I have made the corrections/additions suggested below.

Author kkanekahn
#114 | Posted: 31 Jan 2014 16:03 | Edited by: kkanekahn 
You can delete my proposals, Si Phan Don and Mergui Islands, since I already mentioned that these two sites are not in the same league with Top 50 Miss

PLEASE DELETE THESE 2 SITES. Now we have 114 sites to vote for.

Who proposed Coron Island Natural Biotic Area? It was not in the previous list.

Author Solivagant
#115 | Posted: 1 Feb 2014 03:38 | Edited by: Solivagant 
An interesting list. This is the first time really I have been able to study it as we were on the road during the last flurry of additions/consolidation. I was "pleased" to note that my "visited count" is 49! As for voting - I would still find it difficult to get much past around 30 which I consider really "special" and would probably stop at that during any voting procedure, based on my current knowledge. I still think that, whatever voting system is agreed any sites which just attract a few votes should just stay on the "nominated list" rather than join the agreed "Top 50 missing". But am not quite sure how this is achieved in the system proposed in later rounds if for instance very few take part - as I Indicated I possibly wouldn't want to vote past the top 30 or so. I wonder also if some way could be found of providing at least 1 link (e.g Wiki?) on either the list on this site or on the voting list as a "reminder"/description

Some of the earlier proposals weren't perhaps always clear but the following proposals did get a mention in early discussions and seem worthwhile to me compared with others on the potential list. As I haven't actually made any proposals yet during this second phase may I please claim the right to do so now?

South Georgia (Natural - eg Salisbury Plains and Cultural - Grytviken) ge=0#msg649

Torres del Paine e=0#msg180

Mammoth Bone Burials of Ukraine/Russia age=0#msg7073

I would also suggest
Mt Kailash. Possibly the most significant unrepresented historic pilgrimage route/site.

Author kkanekahn
#116 | Posted: 1 Feb 2014 05:42 
China - Mt Kailash – C – NEW

Philippines - Coron Island Natural Biotic Area – M – NEW (on TL)

It would be better if we propose Mt Kailash as a mixed site due to its natural beauty (criteria 7) and cultural route.
Who proposed Coron Island Natural Biotic Area? It was not in the previous list.

Author Solivagant
#117 | Posted: 1 Feb 2014 08:49 | Edited by: Solivagant 
I thought that the Taino Ceremonial site of Caguana (USA - Puerto Rico) had been suggested earlier too bearing in mind the dearth of indigenous "American" sites and the current non-representation of any Caribbean Island pre-Columbians

It would be better if we propose Mt Kailash as a mixed site due to its natural beauty (criteria 7) and cultural route.

Ok, though I suspect that IUCN wouldn't find it strong/"unique" enough? I think its greatest merit lies in its cultural role.

Oh - and what happened to Carnac and some of jonathonfr's other suggestions back in Dec (under the "old" subject heading). Did he withdraw them?

Author kkanekahn
#118 | Posted: 1 Feb 2014 11:50 
what happened to Carnac and some of jonathonfr's other suggestions back in Dec (under the "old" subject heading). Did he withdraw them?

We can not take such a high number of nomination( may be 91) from anybody.
One has to submit only 3 sites as per the rule.

However you can suggest some of his sites & those will be added in this list after positive suggestion from 2 members.

Author Solivagant
#119 | Posted: 1 Feb 2014 12:03 | Edited by: Solivagant 
We can not take such a high number of nomination( may be 91) from anybody.

Perfectly reasonable! I will have a quick look through his list and see if there are any I might wish to support

On another matter. Was there any debate about the inclusion of sites for no reason other than that they have had their OUV recognised but are otherwise "waiting"? For example is that the only reason the Triple Arch Gate of Dan is present or did someone really think it was "Top 50 missing" material? surely not?

Author winterkjm
#120 | Posted: 1 Feb 2014 12:06 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Coron Island Natural Biotic Area

Bojboj, suggested quite a few Philippines sites (including Coron), we generally decided not to include national sites from our home countries. He made these suggestions before that suggested guideline. There is also a large amount of sunken Japanese WWII ships, which are not (at this point) part of the nomination, but nonetheless very interesting.

For sake of inclusion (and worthiness), I decided to 2nd one of his nominations. Particularly, Coron because of its location on Palawan, which is one of the most beautiful places I've ever witnessed. There is also a high level of endemism in Palawan.

About Caguana it was not chosen as a specific suggestion only as a possible gap-filler (but not necessarily Top 50). I would support adding it at least to the voting list.

Carnac, I do not remember seeing this one. Is it really Top 50 or a suggestion? Dolmens are already inscribed on the list.

As far as Jonthanf's extensive list, it was informally used as a guideline. Users seconded many of his proposals. But the general rule stated by Els was 3 suggesstions (favorites). Khuft and I who seemed to be the unnoficial tally "people" did not include every site on the three extensive lists. Most, but not all, it depended on user support.

Assif, at first suggested some sites, based on their "demonstrated" OUV by ICOMOS. We were still in the early stages of this process. I personally had no idea if the site merited Top 50 discussions or not. Should I remove it? Any objections by Assif or others?

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