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Looking for a third site to make a complete connection

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Author paul
#76 | Posted: 7 Sep 2011 06:42 
St. Avit Sénieur in the Dordogne is fortified and part of "Routes of Santiago de Compostela in France" (location 868-004)

Author Assif
#77 | Posted: 7 Sep 2011 16:07 
Maybe I confused Mompox with another site. I'll have another look at it.

Author Assif
#78 | Posted: 7 Sep 2011 16:13 
No, I didn't get confused. The AB evaluation of Mompox reads: "The churches also served as forts in the earlier years of the city."

Author Solivagant
#79 | Posted: 8 Sep 2011 01:45 | Edited by: Solivagant 
I was ruminating on the difference between "Fortified" and (Mompox) "served as forts" - the former referring to the architecture and the latter to the use - which might be little more than accidental. So I had a look on Wiki and found this

I note
a. That the Dordogne churches get a specific mention -ref the St Avit Senieur suggestion above
b. St Andrews church Krakow is "fortified" -,_Krak%C3%B3w
Situated at ul. Grodzka 54 it is within the inscribed area of Krakow
c. Durham Cathedral is also said to have fortified remains. see the link in the wiki "Fortified Churches" page above to "Fortified Ecclesiasitcal sites in England". I also found this quote "Durham Cathedral was also partly fortified and known as 'half fortress against the Scot'."
d. St Catherines Monastery Sinai

Separately I remembered reading when I was there that the Popocatapetl Monasteries were also "Fortified". Wiki has this quote "These monasteries were built very solid with thick walls and very austere.[12] In some of the complexes, one can see stone merlons which make the complexes look like castles or forts. These were for defensive purposes as the monks were invading Mesoamerican lands to impose a new religion. For this reason, churches and monasteries of this type are called "fortress temples."

Similarly the monasteries of Mt Athos are also "Fortified" - this apparently was done particularly as protection against Pirate attacks (justification for another Connection - "Athos" to "Piracy") "The entire guarding and defending system was pointed towards the enemy coming from the sea. He came up against the fortification of the shore (fortified harbors and towers), then against the fortifications of the monasteries that could held out until the outside help arrived. During the Ottoman domination there was an army body to protect the monasteries." from 2c360e60

Some of these are not "Churches" but include monasteries and Cathedrals so any definition would need to allow this and cover the issue raised by Mompox as to whether any "fortifications" need to be evident in the design/structure rather than just the "use" of the building as a fort. It would also need to exclude churches merely situated WITHIN a fort/castle etc. No doubt there will be some non-Christian religious buildings which were fortified (Though the Potala is primarily a "palace" which contains religious buildings so wouldn't comply) so the definition needs to consider whether it limits Connections solely to Christian religious buildings or not.

Author Assif
#80 | Posted: 1 Oct 2011 12:37 
Ice caves: Halstatt, Slovak Carst, ??

Author Assif
#81 | Posted: 5 Dec 2011 17:51 
Here are two more:

Built according to Leonardo da Vinci's designs:

Urbino (city wall), Cristobal de la Laguna (city plan), ??

Reconstructed to support German revival:

Wartburg, Marbork, ??

And still looking for a third one for Ice Caves above.

Author Assif
#82 | Posted: 5 Dec 2011 18:16 
And another one:

Below Sea Level -

Masada (Roman Camps -400 m)
Beemster Polder (-2 m)

Author Solivagant
#83 | Posted: 5 Dec 2011 18:34 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Re Leonardo da Vinci.
It has been claimed that the Chateau de Chambord utilised outline designs by Leonardo. The Double helix Staircase in particular is said to have been based on his idea and is often called "The Leonardo Staircase". Leonardo had been a guest of Francois I so there were personal connections.
" In 1516, he entered François' service, being given the use of the manor house Clos Lucé near the king's residence at the royal Château d'Amboise. It was here that he spent the last three years of his life, accompanied by his friend and apprentice, Count Francesco Melzi, and supported by a pension totalling 10,000 scudi. Clos Lucé in France, where Leonardo died in 1519..... Leonardo died at Clos Lucé, on May 2, 1519. Francis I had become a close friend. Vasari records that the King held Leonardo's head in his arms as he died" (Wiki)

Construction of Chambord commenced Sep 1619 so the suggestion is certainly feasible if not proven.

Re Below Sea Level
We already have this connection

Author meltwaterfalls
#84 | Posted: 6 Dec 2011 07:14 
Not sure if the Da Vinci one is mostly doubling up on the one we already have.
I had always taken Chambord staircase to be Leonardo's I didn't actually realise there was any possible contention about it.

Author Assif
#85 | Posted: 6 Dec 2011 13:44 
I think it´s a good new connection since it focuses on his designs realized after his death and not on his life.

Author Solivagant
#86 | Posted: 6 Dec 2011 16:56 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Reconstructed to support German revival:

Could you explain more which period you are referring to and what you had in mind to demonstrate/represent "support"?

Marbork was restored in stages between 1815 and start of WWII. The castle acquired a role as a symbol of Prussian history and national consciousness. It went on to be used by the Nazis for rallies/pilgrimages etc
Wartburg had a significant place in German mediaeval history and played a role in the development of German consciousness and unification up to 1848 and more symbolically thereafter. I understand it underwent restoration from 1838 onwards in Romantic/Gothic style.

So, I gather we are looking for buildings "restored" during the 19th century which played a role in developing/representing "German" consciousness/unity during the 19th century - particularly in the earlier part up to unification?

I have been looking in particular at the Castles/Fortresses of the Middle/Lower Rhine. A number of these underwent significant restoration during the 19th Century - in some cases from complete ruins (themselves often the result of the Napoleonic Wars). However the extent to which this was "to support German revival" I am not sure!!

Ehrenbreitstein Fortress was redeveloped by Prussia after it gained the Rhineland in 1815 having been dismantled by France in 1801. A massive statement of Prussian power which had moved down from the North. It certainly had symbolic value too and below it the spit of land known as "Deutches Eck " (harking back to its settlement by the Teutonic Knights) was used to build the enormous monument to Emperor William I who had led the reunification.

Does that "fit the bill"?

Author Assif
#87 | Posted: 8 Dec 2011 19:11 
I certainly think it does! Thanks for the info Solivagant.

Author Durian
#88 | Posted: 30 Jan 2012 20:43 
I just saw the news of ruins collapsing in Ayutthaya, Thailand because of the flood last year, I think we should have connection about flood damage similar to the fire damage connection.
The list I can think:
1) Ayutthaya - 2011
2) Prague - 2002
3) Cesky Krumlov - 2002
4) Dessau Woritz - 2002

Any more suggestion?

Author Solivagant
#89 | Posted: 16 Jun 2012 05:51 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Paper Manufacture

Verla Mill
Costiera Amalfitana - Paper Museum in Amalfi and remains of numerous paper mills in surrounds

Need a third.

Author Solivagant
#90 | Posted: 18 Jun 2012 14:25 | Edited by: Solivagant 
I have found third and fourth "connections" for Paper making.

Naxi Dongba Paper making (The Dongba Manuscripts with their pictographic characters are represented on the list of Intangible Heritage) – there are several producers of this traditional product in Lijiang e.g . However, Lijiang itself was NOT the original location of such traditional manufacture. Rather the process has been "hi-jacked" for tourism purposes by that city!! See

Three Parallel Rivers
Even if Lijiang itself is NOT the true authentic "home" of Dongba paper-making the Global Times article above makes it clear that there are lots of other contenders for that honour!!! I wondered therefore if any of them were situated within the Three Parallel Rivers WHS. In particular I have followed up the various contenders to check where they are located using Google Maps and then trying to relate that to the boundaries of the WHS as shown in this map
Results as follows

a. Kenpeigu is far too close to Lijiang on the south side of the Yangtse river
b. Baishuitai would seem to be within the WHS. It is situated to the East of the main Lijiang/Shangri La highway well into the Haba Snow Mountain area - the valley with its road is outside the WHS boundary. This article seems to confirm that Baishui is both within the WHS AND of cultural significance to the Naxi
c. Xinzhuang village, Tengchong county - this is definitely within the WHS. The Global times article states it to be "on the western side of Gaoligong mountains, a national nature reserve on the China and Myanmar border.". As the map shows this is well within the WHS boundary and this is confirmed by Google Maps which actually shows a park boundary.
Further this article shows that the village is majoring on its "Paper making" heritage for tourism purposes and is indeed the "home" of the new Paper making museum referred to a pictured in the Global times article

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