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Author Jurre
Partaker
#211 | Posted: 24 Dec 2020 11:57 | Edited by: Jurre 
Not sure about this one, but it's a great story:

Chartres Cathedral - On August 16, 1944, during the intervention of the American troops in Chartres, the cathedral was saved from destruction thanks to the American colonel Welborn Barton Griffith Jr., who questioned the order he was given to destroy the cathedral. The Americans believed that Chartres Cathedral was being used by the enemy. The belief was that the steeples and towers were being used as a range for artillery. Griffith, accompanied by a volunteer soldier, instead decided to go and verify whether or not the Germans were using the cathedral. Griffith could see that the cathedral was empty, so he had the cathedral bells ring as a signal for the Americans not to shoot. Upon hearing the bells, the American command rescinded the order for destruction. (Wikipedia)

And maybe this one, with a memorial still in place (which ties in with the memory aspect):

Fortifications of Vauban - During World War II the Germans captured the Citadel of Besançon in 1940. During the Occupation, German firing squads executed some one hundred resistance fighters of diffferent nationalities. A memorial, in the form of four stakes standing between the well and the chapel of Saint Stephen, commemorates "les fusillés" - the men who were shot. (Wikipedia)

Author elsslots
Admin
#212 | Posted: 24 Dec 2020 12:15 | Edited by: elsslots 
There's also a story about the Fagus Factory, where the act probably hasn't taken place at the factory grounds itself: shoe-testers in concentration camps. I'll add it to the forced labour connection.
(also: Fagus contributed to improving the shape of boots for the Wehrmacht during the war.)

Author Jurre
Partaker
#213 | Posted: 24 Dec 2020 20:47 | Edited by: Jurre 
Some more for World War 2:

Le Havre - In the Second World War, German forces occupied Le Havre from the spring of 1940, made a naval base in preparation for the invasion of the United Kingdom (Operation Sealion) and set up the Festung Le Havre, lined with bunkers, pillboxes and artillery batteries integrated into the Atlantic Wall. Le Havre suffered 132 bombings by the Allies during the war and was liberated in September 1944. Despite the extensive damage, Le Havre became the location of some of the biggest Replacement Depots in the European Theatre of Operations in WWII. The port also became key to the Supply and Service Forces operations of the Communications Zone of the U.S. Army. (Wikipedia)

Even if the WH is about the post-war town planning, it is because of the WW2 that the town was replanned and later earned its WHS status. So the WHS designation is closely linked to WW2.

Loire Valley - In 1939, shortly before the outbreak of World War II, the art collections of the Louvre and Compiègne museums (including the Mona Lisa and Venus de Milo) were stored at the Château de Chambord. (Wikipedia)

Lyon - During World War II, Lyon was a centre for the occupying Nazi forces, including Klaus Barbie, who was called the "Butcher of Lyon" for having personally tortured prisoners of the Gestapo, some of them at his headquarters at the Hôtel Terminus . However, the city was also a stronghold of the French Resistance. The many secret passages known as traboules, enabled people to escape Gestapo raids. The famous French resistance hero Jean Moulin was tortured in the Gestapo headquarters in Lyon. (Wikipedia)

Colvin:
I think the only thing I'd suggest is adding the caveat that significant WWII battles are listed in the Battle/Sieges connection, and that wartime damage is listed under the Damaged in WWII connection.

I also think Colvin's caveat should be added to the description of the Connection, to avoid confusion and to link the connection to others, so the complete the picture.

Jurre:
Bikini Atoll - The islands remained relatively unscathed by the Second World War until February 1944, when in a bloody battle, the American forces captured Kwajalein Atoll. At the battle's conclusion, there were only five surviving Japanese soldiers left on Bikini, and they chose to commit suicide rather than allow themselves to be captured. (Wikipedia)

And then this one should be added to "Sieges & Battles".

Author evilweevil
Partaker
#214 | Posted: 25 Dec 2020 18:30 
Schönbrunn Palace: By the end of the war, there was an anti-aircraft gun emplacement on the Gloriette, and in 1945, the main wing of the palace as well as parts of the Gloriette were destroyed by Allied bombing. From September 1945, the palace was the headquarters of the British occupation forces in Austria.

Author Liam
Partaker
#215 | Posted: 25 Dec 2020 19:05 
I worry that the WWII connection is too broad. Off the top of my head I could also recommend:

Westminster - not only was the Palace of Westminster hit several times by bombs (most notably on the nights of 10th and 11th May 1941 when the Commons Chamber was entirely destroyed (https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/building/palace/architecture/palacestructure/bomb-damage/) but it was also the scene of many of Winston Churchill's famous speeches to parliament which stiffened British resistance).

Rjukan-Notodden - the Vemork hydroelectric station was attacked by Norwegian resistance operatives in 1943 during Operation Gunnerside, crippling the Nazis' production of heavy water and thus their search for atomic weapons.

Lviv - the pogroms of June-July 1941 during which thousands of Jews were murdered by Ukranian nationalists and German troops.

With a few minutes more thought I'm sure I could think of more.

Author Liam
Partaker
#216 | Posted: 25 Dec 2020 19:08 
To prove my point - Royal Palace of Caserta - home of the Italian air force academy until 1943, thereafter Allied Force Headquarters for the Mediterranean.

Author elsslots
Admin
#217 | Posted: 26 Dec 2020 02:42 | Edited by: elsslots 
Liam:
I worry that the WWII connection is too broad.

We can look at the restrictions again (strictly limiting ourselves to major events, named locations and tangible remains), but I must say that the list we have now tells a broad story about WWII and I really like that. It is about major battles and sieges, the rise of Hitler, the persecution of Jews, the forced labour in the German industries, milestones in the war in both Europe and the Pacific.

I'd only consider giving up military strongholds like Valetta, Le Havre or Caserta.

Author Jurre
Partaker
#218 | Posted: 26 Dec 2020 12:22 
elsslots:
We can look at the restrictions again (strictly limiting ourselves to major events, named locations and tangible remains), but I must say that the list we have now tells a broad story about WWII and I really like that. It is about major battles and sieges, the rise of Hitler, the persecution of Jews, the forced labour in the German industries, milestones in the war in both Europe and the Pacific.

I think the feeling of broadness of the connection is linked to the fact that it is a relatively recent event and that it is such a global event that affected a lot of countries, cities and sites. But I have to agree with Els that I like the list telling us the broad story of WWII, which it deserves.

I do think WWII deserves to be a connection, as it is such an important event. Not having it, while many other armed conflicts have a connection, seems like a glaring omission.

Author Jurre
Partaker
#219 | Posted: 26 Dec 2020 15:25 | Edited by: Jurre 
Some more possible additions to the Second World War connection:

Royal Saltworks of Arc-et-Senans - From May 1941 to September 1943, the French authorities established an internment camp for gypsies and people with no fixed address on the grounds of the saltworks. In the winter of 1944-1945, there was a German prisoner-of-war camp on the site. (Wikipedia) --> Maybe not strong enough for the connection?

Quedlinburg - During the Nazi regime, the memory of King Henry I (Heinrich I) became a sort of cult, as Heinrich Himmler saw himself as the reincarnation of the "most German of all German" rulers. The collegiate church and castle were to be turned into a shrine for Nazi Germany. The Nazi Party tried to create a new religion. (Wikipedia)

Rome - Benito Mussolini had his office in the Palazzo Venezia, and used its balcony overlooking the Piazza Venezia to deliver many of his most notable speeches, such as the declaration of the Italian Empire, 9 May 1936, to crowds gathered in the Piazza Venezia below. (Wikipedia)

---

Connection: Forced labour during WWII

@els: I would also put a link to the "Forced labour during WWII" connection in the initial description of the Second World War connection.

This one can be added to the Forced Labour connection:

Regensburg - In the final months of World War II, in March and April of 1945 a subcamp of the Flossenbürg concentration camp was located in the city, with 460 forced laborers of various nationalities, 40 of whom died. (Wikipedia)

---

Connection: Damaged in World War II

Budapest - (Already in the connection, but expanding the rationale.) During the retreat, Germans blew up all the bridges over the Danube. The whole city was destroyed during the two-month-long siege of Budapest (1944-1945). (Wikipedia)

Rome - The first bombardment occurred on July 19, 1943 and was carried out by 500 American bombers which dropped 1,168 tons of bombs. The entire working class district of San Lorenzo was destroyed, and 3,000 Italian civilians were killed in the raids over five residential/railway districts. (Wikipedia)

Vatican City - Bombings of Vatican City occurred twice during World War II. The first occasion was on the evening of 5 November 1943, when a plane dropped bombs on the area south-west of Saint Peter's Basilica, causing considerable damage but no casualties. The second bombing, which affected only the outer margin of the city, was at about the same hour on 1 March 1944, and caused the death of one person and the injury of another. (Wikipedia)

Wartburg Castle - American artillery shooting from April 1 to April 5 1945 damaged several parts of Wartburg Castle. (Wikipedia)

---

Connection: Sieges and Battles

Budapest - The Siege of Budapest or Battle of Budapest was the 50-day-long encirclement by Soviet and Romanian forces of the Hungarian capital of Budapest, near the end of World War II. During the siege, about 38,000 civilians died through starvation or military action. The city unconditionally surrendered on 13 February 1945. It was a strategic victory for the Allies in their push towards Berlin. (Wikipedia)

Author elsslots
Admin
#220 | Posted: 27 Dec 2020 05:32 
Thanks, I will add most of them

Jurre:
Rome - The first bombardment occurred on July 19, 1943 and was carried out by 500 American bombers which dropped 1,168 tons of bombs. The entire working class district of San Lorenzo was destroyed, and 3,000 Italian civilians were killed in the raids over five residential/railway districts. (Wikipedia)

I think all significant damage was outside the core zone of the WHS, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Rome_in_World_War_II

Author Jurre
Partaker
#221 | Posted: 27 Dec 2020 09:36 | Edited by: Jurre 
elsslots:
I think all significant damage was outside the core zone of the WHS, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Rome_in_World_War_II

I wondered about that too. I thought the San Lorenzo district with Termini station was still core zone, but wasn't sure. My mistake! I will have to have a closer look at the maps!

Author Jurre
Partaker
#222 | Posted: 27 Dec 2020 10:14 
Jurre:
Rome - Benito Mussolini had his office in the Palazzo Venezia, and used its balcony overlooking the Piazza Venezia to deliver many of his most notable speeches, such as the declaration of the Italian Empire, 9 May 1936, to crowds gathered in the Piazza Venezia below. (Wikipedia)

Adding to Rome: The Treaties of Rome were a set of three international treaties signed on 18 May 1941 by the Independent State of Croatia and Kingdom of Italy at the Palazzo Venezia in Rome. The treaties allowed the creation of the Italian Governorate of Dalmatia, carved out of the occupied Yugoslav territory following the April 1941 invasion of Yugoslavia. (Wikipedia)

Author Jurre
Partaker
#223 | Posted: 27 Dec 2020 14:03 | Edited by: Jurre 
Connection: Damaged in World War II

Riga - By the end of the war, Riga's historical centre was heavily damaged because of constant bombing. One of the damaged buildings was St. Peter's Church, which lost its wooden tower after a fire caused by the Wehrmacht. Another example is The House of the Blackheads, which was completely destroyed. Its ruins were subsequently demolished and a facsimile was constructed in 1995. (Wikipedia)

San Gimignano - San Gimignano was bombarded during ten days by the Americans. The bell of the Torre Grossa was destroyed, a house on the central square and part of the cathedral collapsed. Some people were also killed. (Wikipedia)

Connection: Second World War

Riga - During the Second World War, Riga was both occupied by the Soviet Union and Germany. The Soviets imposed a regime of terror and started massive deportations. Stalin's deportations also included thousands of Latvian Jews. The building of the KGB, known as 'the corner house', is now a museum. During the Nazi occupation, the Jewish community was forced into the Riga Ghetto. (Wikipedia)

Connection: Forced labour during WWII

Vilnius - A forced labour camp was set up behind the Vilnius Town Hall as a factory to produce winter clothing for the Wehrmacht and another one later for vehicle repair. (Wikipedia)

Author Jurre
Partaker
#224 | Posted: 27 Dec 2020 14:09 
Liam:
Royal Palace of Caserta - home of the Italian air force academy until 1943, thereafter Allied Force Headquarters for the Mediterranean.

The Royal Palace of Caserta was also the site of the official surrender of the German forces in Italy to the Allies, called the "Surrender of Caserta" on 29 April 1945. This ended the Italian Campaign of WWII. (Wikipedia)

Author elsslots
Admin
#225 | Posted: 28 Dec 2020 08:47 | Edited by: elsslots 
I am trying to judge the more recent proposals for Second World War a bit more objectively, let's see if it leads us somewhere:

Jurre:
Quedlinburg - During the Nazi regime, the memory of King Henry I (Heinrich I) became a sort of cult, as Heinrich Himmler saw himself as the reincarnation of the "most German of all German" rulers. The collegiate church and castle were to be turned into a shrine for Nazi Germany. The Nazi Party tried to create a new religion. (Wikipedia)

a. Named location: Collegiate Church and Castle. (Y)
b. Tangible remains: Im Schlossmuseum werden heute die Überreste des Sarkophages (from Heinrich I ed.) und eine Dokumentation zur NS-Zeit ausgestellt. (wiki de) (Y)
c. Major events: not really, more trivia - the "cult" inside Germany does add another angle to the broader story (but not important enough I think to represent the role of the SS) (N)
d. Timeframe 1939-1945: Ab 1938 war die Kirche von der SS unter Heinrich Himmler besetzt (wiki de), the congregation got their keys back in 1945 (source) (Y)

Score 75%, would better fit a connection about Nazism or Occultism

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