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Out or in doubt #4

Author elsslots
#1 | Posted: 8 Mar 2009 06:48 
I have doubts about the following proposed connections, maybe due to a lack of knowledge. So please clarify if you know more about the subject or WHS:

Fontenay – Infermerie (is this a hospital or prison?)

Mosaic art
Stari Grad (the mosaics here are not significant or visible?)

Minority communities
Gjirokastra - centre of Albanian Greeks (the WHS is not about the Greek heritage, but about the Ottoman heritage)

Historical cafes
Prague - Kafka café (I cannot find a date when it was established, was it before or after WWI?)

Venice: Santa Lucia station; Rome: Termini station (both not within the inscribed area)

Author Assif
#2 | Posted: 8 Mar 2009 11:42 

Author Solivagant
#3 | Posted: 8 Mar 2009 11:58 | Edited by: Solivagant 
I quote from

"On the east side of Maiselova, north of Siroka (where sits the Franz Kafka Cafe, a pub that merely appropriates his name), is the pink Jewish Town Hall, the civic hub for Prague's Jews since the baroque era. The tower of this building contains the famous Hebrew clock whose hands turn backward."

Better to use one of those which has a confirmed pre WWI pedigree? There is a Kafka Connection with the Hotel Europa Cafe
"On the second floor of the Café [Grand Hotel Europa] in December 1912, Kafka read his newly composed "The Judgment" to an appreciative audience"

Author Assif
#4 | Posted: 8 Mar 2009 19:19 
Cafe Kafka isn't so old but there are other cafes in historic Prague which predate WWI (see link above).

Author david
#5 | Posted: 29 Mar 2009 07:00 
Even if there are not maps showing the boundaries of the WHS, Santa Lucia station in Venice is included in the WHS because it is situated in the centre of Venice and the entire lagoon is included in the WHS. It is interesting to note that the WHS is so large that it includes features quite away from the Venice historic centre such as the historic centres of Chioggia, Murano and Burano and the monumental complex of Torcello (all of them explicitely cited in the ICOMOS evalutuation).
Also Termini station is in Rome historic centre and within the boundaries of the WHS. I have also found a map somewhere among the WHC documents but I cannot find it anymore.

Author Solivagant
#6 | Posted: 29 Mar 2009 08:45 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Are we in danger of "grinding excessively small" on some of these matters? Inscribed city centres are not going to draw "holes" around unimportant or even possibly unwanted buildings within a "natural boundary" - for better or for worse they are there and it is important at least to include their "footprint" to ensure that nothing worse gets put there. But, before we make a connection, shouldn't we ask if such buildings form a worthwhile part of the inscribed scene and justification or rather just a bit of infrastructure. Some railway stations within cities clearly do - the Budapest Metro for instance.
If a structure
a. is neither mentioned in the inscription or evaluation documents
b. Nor has any particular historical, cultural or architectural significance
is it worth "connecting" to??
As I mentioned earlier we could start listing all the public toilets in an inscribed area but is it worth it? Yet we have found some significant and historical Latrines for a genuine connection - I feel we should treat railway stations a similar way.

Author david
#7 | Posted: 29 Mar 2009 09:38 | Edited by: david 
You are certainly right, Solivagant, but even if they are not comparable to the monuments surrounding them, these two stations are really important examples of Italian modern architecture, along with, for example, the Santa Maria Novella station in Florence (also within the WHS boundaries).

Author Solivagant
#8 | Posted: 29 Mar 2009 09:55 
It is a judgement call which I will leave to Els. Some sites are inscribed for their "continuity" and some for the remains of a particular period. In the case of the fomer I guess that "important" modern architecture within the boundaries justifies being "connected" - in the case of the latter it is really just a serendipitous occurrence which at most justifies a "Trivial connection". ("Which WHS have a non-inscribed railway station within their boundaries"). It seems unfortunate to mix such railway infrastructure with other which is significant in the inscription.

On which matter - I wonder how many Mcdonalds there are within the inscribed areas of WHS? I suggest this purely as a Trivial connection!!

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 Out or in doubt #4

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