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WHS Hotspots

 
 
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Author elsslots
Admin
#76 | Posted: 30 May 2021 13:41 
The 2.57 I see on Monday is from 16:12⇢19:09, so you'd never get back to l'viv on the same day

Author TaiTT
Partaker
#77 | Posted: 30 May 2021 13:53 | Edited by: TaiTT 
elsslots
Oh yeah i missed that, shouldn't Struve also be delisted from helsinki hotspot as I doubt any taxi in Porlammi knows of their struve site.

Author Sjobe
Partaker
#78 | Posted: 31 May 2021 02:20 | Edited by: Sjobe 
In Porlammi they know for sure, and taxis take you to Porlom II site from Helsinki or anywhere else in Finland because they all have navigation systems. But because of the Finnish taxi fares one have to be either rich or very desperate about Struve sites.

Some years ago I suggested, among others, removing Porlom II from Helsinki hotspot, because it is not possible to visit it on the same day by public transport. I was given many reasons why something should or should not be possible. One reason was that private transport option (rental car) is also allowed on hotspots. According to this logic, maybe from Lviv to Struve site is also possible.

Author elsslots
Admin
#79 | Posted: 31 May 2021 04:43 
Sjobe:
According to this logic, maybe from Lviv to Struve site is also possible.

This is not possible due to train reasons, see above. The taxi thing is an additional hurdle.

Author Sjobe
Partaker
#80 | Posted: 31 May 2021 06:27 | Edited by: Sjobe 
elsslots:
This is not possible due to train reasons, see above. The taxi thing is an additional hurdle.

No need to start "a big discussion", both ways are OK for me – but this thing just puzzles me. Maybe because it affects the whole concept of "hotspot".

I consider both Helsinki to Struve and Lviv to Struve analogue cases. Why Helsinki to Struve is possible but Lviv to Struve is not? I mean, you can take a rental car to Struve site also in Lviv and skip train + taxi combination. Or maybe I'm completely lost with this thing...

EDIT: the difference between Helsinki to Struve (110 km) and Lviv to Struve (230 km) is of course the distance. But does it explain why the other is possible and the other is not?

Author TaiTT
Partaker
#81 | Posted: 2 Jun 2021 14:03 | Edited by: TaiTT 
Sjobe
What is even more confusing to me is why is their a Suceava Hotspot Struve site as it requires an international border crossing (Moldova-Romania), is about the same distance as the L'viv site (210km) and is impossible by Public transportation, Why is Suceava's listed while L'viv's is not?

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#82 | Posted: 3 Jun 2021 03:58 
Sjobe:
No need to start "a big discussion", both ways are OK for me – but this thing just puzzles me. Maybe because it affects the whole concept of "hotspot".

I think the concept is fluid, as stated a few pages ago:
* Travel advice: What can I do here? Amsterdam, Beijing... Some connections may not be obvious.
* Regional grouping: What WHS are in the area? Andulisa, Apulia, ...

These two aspects may not always overlap, especially in countries with high speed rail. From Frankfurt you can cover most of Germany as a day trip, even Brussels or Strasbourg. I don't think adding these sites to Frankfurt really makes sense, though, as there are more regional hotspots to cover them. On the other hand, if a given site - or more specifically a location - is not part of any other hotspot, then I find it useful to include it in a hotspot. So Guangzhou <-> Yangshou for South China is simply a nice tick even though it's 400km apart. China Bullet Trains are simply great.

In the end it's a balancing act and that's what the forum is for. :) For me a hotspot should be something that combines multiple sites into a single trip.

TaiTT:
Why is Suceava's listed while L'viv's is not?

I think question is the travel time which would include time at the border. For Ukraine the times were quite lengthy. Molodova <> Romania never crossed.

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#83 | Posted: 9 Jun 2021 08:52 
Just realized that China can have a lot more hotspots... Adding Luoyang as an example.

Luoyang = no bullet train
- Grand Canal -
- Silkroad
- Shaolin
- Longmen
Luoyang + bullet train
- Xian Qin Mausoleum
- Pingyao
- Yin Xu (Anyang)
- ... ?

Author elsslots
Admin
#84 | Posted: 9 Jun 2021 10:28 
nfmungard:
Just realized that China can have a lot more hotspots... Adding Luoyang as an example.

Luoyang = no bullet train
- Grand Canal -
- Silkroad
- Shaolin
- Longmen

These are already in the Zhengzhou hotspot https://www.worldheritagesite.org/connection/Zhengzhou+Hotspot#1003

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#85 | Posted: 9 Jun 2021 10:45 | Edited by: nfmungard 
elsslots:
These are already in the Zhengzhou hotspot

Luoyang would be the better hotspot.
0) 3 Sites are directly in Luoyang. 1 other is closest to Luoyang. As good as hotspots get.
1) More history. It's the historic capital of China.
2) Xian and Pingyao can also be added. Potentially even more.

Problem I see is Chinese high speed. Essentially, you can make loads of places hotspots by virtue of having bullet trains. Pingyao hotspot would include Beijing :D

So my preference for hotspots in densely covered areas is:
1) Pick a center of gravity that has historic significance and it's own WHS.
2) Add connected WHS if they aren't well covered by other hotspots.
3) Note down related hotspots.
4) Relax the 4 sites criterium IF there are local sites.

E.g. assuming Xian get City Walls added (100% proponent myself), it has 3 sites on its own (silk road, mausoleum, city walls). This to me would be a valid hotspot on its own even though it's below the 4 site threshold. Luoyang already meets the 4 sites threshold.

Author elsslots
Admin
#86 | Posted: 9 Jun 2021 10:52 
nfmungard:
Pick a center of gravity that has historic significance and it's own WHS.
2) Add connected WHS if they aren't well covered by other hotspots.

Agree

Author elsslots
Admin
#87 | Posted: 9 Jun 2021 10:54 
nfmungard:
E.g. assuming Xian get City Walls added (100% proponent myself), it has 3 sites on its own (silk road, mausoleum, city walls). This to me would be a valid hotspot on its own

For those we have https://www.worldheritagesite.org/connection/WHS+within+walking+distance which I think is similar.

Author TaiTT
Partaker
#88 | Posted: 15 Jun 2021 20:54 
Can we add Yungang Grottoes to Beijing hotspot as the journey to datong is about 2h 10m and from there it's a 25km Bus/Taxi ride.

Author elsslots
Admin
#89 | Posted: 17 Jun 2021 00:32 
TaiTT:
Can we add Yungang Grottoes to Beijing hotspot as the journey to datong is about 2h 10m and from there it's a 25km Bus/Taxi ride.

I think it is too far. Rome2Rio has it at 4h20 min. The train you are referring to starts way out in Beijing Qinghe Station (48 min subway ride outside of the city center)

Author Zoe
Partaker
#90 | Posted: 17 Jun 2021 02:01 | Edited by: Zoe 
Technically, there is a train (G2503) that goes from Beijing North which is very center and connected by 2 subway lines, leaves in the morning 08:20, takes 1h45 and there are 3 afternoon trains back all taking between 1h45 and 2h23 with the last at 6pm so you'd be back in Beijing at 8:30pm. From Datong South station it's still 2h by bus to reach the grottos (30km). All in all, while possible, as a daytrip it's not advisable. With so much to do in Datong and Shaanxi in general it's better to just arrive there and start a new "hotspot".

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