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Out or In Doubt #18

Author elsslots
#1 | Posted: 11 Sep 2010 01:03 
(3208) Built in the 18th century
Studley Royal Park - water garden designed from 1718
>> in defining the age, I would go for that of Fountains Abbey (12th cent), not for the several later additions

(3207) Location for a classic movie
Arles – Ronin
>> not really a classic movie?

(3203) Linear inscriptions
Norwegian fjords
>> ?? 2 separate sites, start- and endpoint? Also not mentioned in unesco-reports

(3200) Cold War
Vienna - its location in Eastern Europe as well as its neutrality made it a favourite playground for spies during the Cold War.
>> link to a specific place?

(3196) Hospitals
Medina of Tunis Aziza Othmana hospital
>> any historical/architectural significance?

(3184) Modelled after
Statue of Liberty - modelled after the Colossus of Rhodes
>> (former) Colossus is no WHS, only medieval Rhodes is

(3177) Built or owned by Japanese
Lumbini - the Lumbini Master plan including landscape is designed by by the famous Japanese modernist architect Kenzo Tange
>> it's outside the core zone of the WHS

Gore Island
>> which one? Relevance?

(3155) Ossuary
Banska Stiavnica: Former ossuary in the old castle
>> does it still exist?

(3154) Major Museums
Banska Stiavnica: Mining Museum in various locations
>> not major / world class
>> I will clean up the Major Museums connection, a lot of them are not world class

Classical Age of India (7th-13th Centuries, non-Muslim): Sanchi, Chola, Khajuraho, Hampi, Vihara, Konark, Kathmandu Valley, Pattadakal, Champano-Pavagadh also Anuradhapuha, Polonnaruwa, Dambulla
>> too much focus on one country
>> I've also deleted the ones about the most beautiful villages in France & Italy and the Mex state capitals

(2676) Located in a Former Capital
Cuenca - Guapondeleg was the Canari Capital 500-1529 (Tumebamba is the Inca city that preceded Cuenca, Ecuador.)
>> more "built over a former capital"

(2669) Built or owned by French
Ambohimanga - owned by the French 1883-1956
>> only because it was part of a French colony then, or did the French do something significant to the site?

Author Assif
#2 | Posted: 11 Sep 2010 01:43 
Re Goree: it has a mosque from 1890 which is one of the oldest ones of the country.

Author elsslots
#3 | Posted: 19 Sep 2010 01:32 
Some more:

(3247) Religious Relics
Polonnaruwa - until the 13th Century Atadage contained a tooth of Budha.
>> in the past

(3234) Universities
Wachau - Donau University in Krems
>> nothing special about it to merit a visit on its own?

(3233) In former GDR
Goslar – Walkenried (it was at the border, not in the GDR)

(3124) Religious Relics
central Highland - Sacred footprint
>> it's a Petrosomatoglyph (another connection)

Built in the 19th Century
Safranbolu - most registered buildings
>> There are certainly 3 periods contending
a. The 14C - For mosque/bath and Madrassah
b. The 17C - "The caravan trade reached its apogee in the 17th century, when the central market was extended to meet the requirements of travellers rather than the local inhabitants. Many buildings survive from this period, including the Cinci Inn with its sixty guest rooms (1640-48), the Kiiprtilti Mosque (1661), and the Let Pasha Mosque (1796), as well as many stores, stables, and baths".
c. The 19C "The 19th century saw considerable investment in private estates and a sharp increase in the size of the town. The richer inhabitants donated public buildings, including eighteen fountains, the Kayak and Hamadiye mosques, the Ali Baba convent, and the town hospital"
>> would go for 17th century, as its value lies in "the most perfect surviving examples of Ottoman provincial domestic Architecture"

Author elsslots
#4 | Posted: 17 Oct 2010 12:30 | Edited by: elsslots 
And a couple more:

1. Walled cities
INTRAMUROS, the original MANILA. It is still a walled city. The forts, bastions, walls, dungeons, some churches are still there preserved.
>> Manila is no WHS

(3265) Macaronesia
The island of El Hierro, a Reserva de la Biosfera .
>> no WHS

(3217) Excavated by American Universities
Goree - several including Yale
>> how prominent are these excavations? I can only find the reference on the wiki-page; the connection was meant for major excavation works that uncover an archeological site

(3202) Linear inscriptions
I've sharpened the definition of these, in "linear" as meaning "a significant linear section which is less than 5 kms wide". Somehow it attracted sites that were just "longer" than "wide"

Out are:
Australian reef, (> longer than it's wide, but much wider than 5 km, stretches of reef not 1 line)
Belize reef, (> longer than it's wide, but much wider than 5 km, stretches of reef not 1 line)
Papahānaumokuākea (more "point" than linear)

2911) Minority communities
I've split this connection into "Minority Communities" (cultural and mixed sites that owe their OUV to a minority group) and "Natural sites with indigenous human population"

Out or in doubt are:
Gunung Mulu - Penan People
>> AB states: Local Penans retain traditional hunting rights within the park. (but do they live there?)
Imperial Palace in Shenyang - Manchu
>> historical site
Macao - Portuguese Macanese
>> The Creole language is mentioned in the AB
Aleppo - Syriacs (Maronites)
>> not in AB
Iguacu - Guarani En el momento de la llegada de los españoles al lugar, en el siglo XVI, los guaraníes estaban ampliando su territorio. Estos nativos se caracterizaban entre otras cosas por sus diversos cultivos. Wiki
>> the Guarani do not live anymore within the borders of the park?
Cuzco - Qechuas who constitute the largest native group in Peru and are officially recognized as a regional minority.
>> not named in AB ev, not significant for OUV of this site

(3263) Conical roofs
Mountain Resort Chengde, China
>> which building?

Author Assif
#5 | Posted: 18 Oct 2010 01:03 
According to the new criteria all my proposals for minorities and linear inscriptions are out except three I´m not sure about:

Rhine Valley - linear or not?

Canadian Rockies - indigenous population still living within?

Author Solivagant
#6 | Posted: 18 Oct 2010 03:46 | Edited by: Solivagant 
When I first suggested "Linear Sites" I was thinking of Roads, Railways and Canals where just the "narrow" (and man made) item itself was inscribed. "Rivers" as natural rather than man made features only came in as a second thought - but some sites certainly follow them in a "line" in the form of cultural/man made structures/landscape much the same as a canal so, it seemed, they fitted the idea. On any of them some allowance obviously has to be made for buildings, towpaths, stations etc running alongside the basic "line" - but that then raises the issue as to how far beyond the "line" we go and still have what is basically a "line"?

In some of its evaluations UNESCO also actually referred to the concept of a "Linear Landscape" - which would seem to suggest that this aspect of a site has some wider validity but unfortunately it does not appear to have been universally used so we can't rely on its use as the prime determinant of this connection

It is a judgement call - The Middle Rhine Valley certainly "follows" the Rhine Valley in general but also includes a lot of areas some distance away from the river. The Map in the Nomination file is rather awkward to follow but shows that the boundary frequently "wanders" away from the Rhine banks themselves up other valleys and even over hills. This map shows it on a single page
At almost no point does the site solely follow the banks of the Rhine

On the other hand the "Banks of the Seine" very much emphasises the banks with their man-made features and, although it does depart from the streets and buildings immediately fronting the Seine (eg for the Eiffel Tower), the vast majority of the site directly faces the Seine.

What about Lavaux - which follows the north shore of Lac Leman? (But not really a "central" line?)
What about Quebrada de Humahuaca which follows a wide mountain valley

This is all a "game" of course but in so far as it has a purpose it is to highlight something worth knowing and possibly unusual about a site and other sites sharing that attribute. I certainly "learned" something when I looked at the map of the Incense Route and Desert Cities of the Negev (suggested by yourself Assif?) and discovered just how "linear" it was!

I personally don't feel that the Middle Rhine inscription really "connects" with the others in terms of its "linearity".
BUT of course we could
a. Extend the, admittedly arbitary, "5kms" rule.
b. Grind even smaller by introducing other rules about percentages of length being linear or within sight of a "central" line etc etc.
c. Introduce a new connection for "River Valleys" and limit the "linear" connection to man made objects
d. Allow linear to mean roughly longer than narrower
e. etc etc

This Web site contains data sheets on all (??) Natural WHS - each Data Sheet includes a statement on whether there is a permanent human habitation and, if so, by what sort of people.
Sometimes it isn't absolutely clear whether an identified population actually lives inside or at the edge of a site - e.g for Nahanni it states "Some 100 Nahanni Denes follow a traditional way of life at Nahanni Butte at the junction of the South Nahanni and Liard rivers at the southern end of the Park". You need to go to Parcs Canada to discover that Nahanni Butte is indeed at the southern end of the park, but it is also just outside!!
The Rocky Mountain Parks data sheet makes no mention of any indigenous groups living inside those parks.
The Wood Buffalo sheet states "The local Cree and Chipewyan tribes are now organised into the Mikasew-Cree First Nation and exercise fishing, hunting and trapping rights in the Park." - but we already have another connection for traditional Hunting. It then states "some trapping permit holders live in the Park during the winter" . Over to you on that one Els - does "living in the park during the winter" constitute habitation as per the Connection??

I am sure a trawl through these Data Sheets would identify other sites for this Connection - Dja for instance.

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 Out or In Doubt #18

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