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What are they doing all day in Paris anyway? www.worldheritagesite.org Forum / What are they doing all day in Paris anyway? /  
 

Future handling of sites of memory associated with recent conflicts

 
 
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Author winterkjm
Partaker
#31 | Posted: 24 Jan 2023 15:18 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Solivagant:
at least one has been preserved as a National Historic Site - Manzanar

Nearly all of the 10 Internment Camps are now National Historic Sites, National Monuments, or National Historic Landmarks. I have been to 3 of them (Tule, Manzanar, and Poston). An additional internment camp Honouliuli (in Hawaii) was also used for prisoners of war and is today a National Historic site.

Author jonathanfr
Partaker
#32 | Posted: 24 Jan 2023 15:34 
A few other sites that I suspect will be offered one day:

Japan/Solomon Islands/USA : Pacific War (Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Midway, Okinawa)
Chile : Museo de la Memoria y los Derechos Humanos
Cuba : Bay of Pigs, Guantanamo
Egypt/Libya : Western Desert campaign (Bir Hakeim, El Alamein)
Algeria : Reggane (use his colony for nuclear testing)
Kazakhstan : Semipalatinsk Test Site
Northern Mariana Islands : Suicide Cliff
Russia : Katyń (by throwing the responsibility on the other country)
Ukraine : Chernobyl (not conflictual, but in recent memory)
Ukraine : Babi Yar
Ukraine: National Museum of the Holodomor-Genocide
Ukraine : Sites related to 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine (it probably wouldn't be inscribed, but putting them on the tentative list would draw attention)

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#33 | Posted: 24 Jan 2023 15:34 
winterkjm:
I have been to 3 of them (Tule, Manzanar, and Poston).

Any OUV? Leaving aside any questions of likelihood of it happening etc - purely in terms of comparison with other sites getting inscribed and the new UNESCO policy on Sites of Memory?

Author jonathanfr
Partaker
#34 | Posted: 24 Jan 2023 15:37 
Perhaps we should establish a speculative list, a kind of TOP 50 places of memory of recent conflicts that we imagine to be on the tentative lists (even without guarantee of one day being inscribed on the World Heritage List).

Author jonathanfr
Partaker
#35 | Posted: 24 Jan 2023 15:50 | Edited by: jonathanfr 
Fusion of Solivagant's list and mine:

Rwanda - Genocide
South Africa - Mandela
Argentina - ESME
Romania - Brancusi
Belgium/France - WWI Memorials
France - WWII landings
Russia - Mamayev Kurgan
Cabo Verde - Tarrafal Concentration Camp. I doubt if Portugal would fight it
Cambodia - Tuol Sleng - internal conflict so will get through?
India - Cellular Jail. UK wouldn't oppose
Poland - Gdansk. I can't really see any great opposition
Turkey - Gallipoli - if WWI memorials are ok then this must be too
US - Civil Rights
China - Unit 731. Will Japan be happy?
Palestine - Dheisheh Refugee Camp. A good stick to beat Israel with
Kazakhstan - KarLag, (Karaganda Corrective Labour Camp).
USA - USS Arizona
USA - Trinity
India - Amritsar Massacre site
Algeria - Martyr's Memorial.
Canada/Australia - there must be plenty of potential sites to represent the "bad treatment"/massacres of native peoples.
UK and others - Cold war sites
Ireland - Kilmainham Jail and other revolutionary sites.
DPRK - Kim Il Sung Memorial
Russia - Perm-36
France: Oradour-sur-Glane
Austria, Germany, Poland - a transnational serial inscription of the concentration camps (Buchenwald...), an extension of Auschwitz.
Viet Nam - Cu Chi Tunnels
Germany: Stasi Prison
Thailand: Death Railway
USA: Ground Zero
Armenia - Tsitsernakaberd (Armenian Genocide Memorial)
Japan/Solomon Islands/USA : Pacific War (Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Midway, Okinawa)
Chile : Museo de la Memoria y los Derechos Humanos
Cuba : Bay of Pigs, Guantanamo
Egypt/Libya : Western Desert campaign (Bir Hakeim, El Alamein)
Algeria : Reggane (use his colony for nuclear testing)
Kazakhstan : Semipalatinsk Test Site
Northern Mariana Islands : Suicide Cliff
Russia : Katyń (by throwing the responsibility on the other country)
Ukraine : Chernobyl (not conflictual, but in recent memory)
Ukraine : Babi Yar
Ukraine: National Museum of the Holodomor-Genocide
Ukraine : Sites related to 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine (it probably wouldn't be inscribed, but putting them on the tentative list would draw attention)
Angola : Cuito Cuanavale
Germany : Steinwache
Germany : Berlin Wall remnants
Baltic countries : Vilnius KGB Museum, Corner House (Riga)
Croatia : Vukovar
Kosovo : Memorial Complex Adem Jashari
Hungary : Memento Park
Romania : Palace of the Parliament

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#36 | Posted: 24 Jan 2023 15:54 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Bosnia - Srebrenica Genocide Memorial
No shortage of "candidates". On a "case by case basis" this might well not have OUV - but do those in Rwanda?

Author jonathanfr
Partaker
#37 | Posted: 24 Jan 2023 16:06 
Yes the candidates are not lacking, a pandora's box has been opened, so I prefer to stop.

Author Alikander99
Partaker
#38 | Posted: 24 Jan 2023 16:14 | Edited by: Alikander99 
Two sites come to mind related to the rise of fascism: documentation center nazi party rally grounds (Nuremberg) and la cruz de los caídos (San Lorenzo de El Escorial). The first one is, imo, an obvious fit. There's arguably no better place to showcase the rise of nazi Germany and fascist megalomania. The latter is more complicated...
The monument was the very poster child of francoism, intended both to "heal" old rivalries and intimidate the opposition. It houses over 30.000 bodies, including, until very recently, that of franco himself! All crowned with the biggest Cross in the world. I think the monument perfectly encapsulates fascist megalomania and francoist hyperreligiousness. The spanish civil war was seen by many abroad at the time as the fight between democracy and fascism and served as a preview of WW2. In this sense I think It would be good to have an element in the list representing francoism. It also gives us a rare example of fascist grand war memorial.
...
However, It's not ready AT ALL. There's still discussion about what the heck yo do with It and currently It's still a functioning monastery! Though you can visit. A particularly touchy point is that most of those 30.000 corpses were desecrated to be placed in the basilica. It's still very much an open wound. Hopefully in the future It Will host a museum, the first in Spain!!, About the civil war.

Hopefully someone can propose an italian site to represent the rise of fascism.

Another country which may have smth with OUV is Albania, as one of the most repressive and isolationist communist states in history. I wouldn't be surprised to see an assortment of bunkers be put forward by the country.

Author jonathanfr
Partaker
#39 | Posted: 24 Jan 2023 16:18 | Edited by: jonathanfr 
I can't resist adding 2 more:

Germany : Palace of Justice, Nuremberg

Italy : Casa del Fascio (Côme), Fascist architecture
Mentioned in the UNESCO document:
https://whc.unesco.org/document/9399

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#40 | Posted: 24 Jan 2023 17:46 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Solivagant:
Any OUV? Leaving aside any questions of likelihood of it happening etc - purely in terms of comparison with other sites getting inscribed and the new UNESCO policy on Sites of Memory?

Japanese-American Internment Camps [Flickr Album]

Manzanar is a National Historic Site and includes an excellent museum. Since all ten "War Relocation Centers" primarily had hastily built wooden barracks that were mostly dismantled after 1945-1946, visitors can expect limited remains. Some have a few barracks still standing or have been reconstructed/preserved, including guard towers. Manzanar includes a cenotaph honoring the Japanese-Americans (nisei and issei) buried there, including markers for other graves. There are also ruins and foundations of gardens, the layout of the site is generally intact.

Tule Lake is a National Monument and includes an original stockade used for interrogation and detention. Tule Lake housed the so-called "No . . No" internees, those who responded unsatisfactorily to the infamous "Loyalty Questionnaire". Tule Lake does have some other buildings still intact, but are not always accessible to the public.

Poston is a Historic District and National Historic Landmark, which is unique since its located within the boundaries of a Native American reservation and there are numerous examples of how these two communities adjusted to each other and eventually formed certain levels of cooperation. The most significant site here is the Poston Elementary School which was designed and built by Japanese-Americans. Interpretation is minimal, there have been efforts made to eventually build a museum.

Manzanar and Tule Lake are managed by the National Park Service. Some of the other Internment Camps have recently been added as National Park Units, gaining recognition or protection primarily during the Bush and Obama administrations.

The Japanese-American Internment Camps are recognized at the national level. Management, boundaries, authenticity are all high. The programing on-site is typically presented as a warning (this could happen again) and focuses on the difficult experience of those interned, war hysteria, nativism, and xenophobia. Over the decades, these internment camps (sometimes called concentration camps) have became pilgrimage sites for those who were imprisoned, their children, and now grandchildren. I think World Heritage USA (formerly US ICOMOS) would not be opposed to such a nomination.

*The U.S. Gap Study Report (2016) included the Trail of Tears (forced migration), Manhattan Project Sites (Cold War), and Angel Island alongside Ellis Island (Chinese Exclusion 1882-1943).

Author jonathanfr
Partaker
#41 | Posted: 25 Jan 2023 10:13 
I seem to have heard that the sites proposed in September will be those of Argentina, South Africa, Belgium/France, Rwanda, but I have not heard Romania or France (landing beaches).

Author elsslots
Admin
#42 | Posted: 25 Jan 2023 10:21 | Edited by: elsslots 
jonathanfr:
I seem to have heard

Was it at the end of the session, when the Director was speaking? (I didn't pay full attention)
The other 2 countries you mention are not members of the WH committee, so they'd have to do it in writing. The others were in the room.

Author jonathanfr
Partaker
#43 | Posted: 25 Jan 2023 10:34 
Yes at the end, maybe we can listen the replay later

Author jonathanfr
Partaker
#44 | Posted: 25 Jan 2023 11:08 
Info concerning sites of memory associated with recent conflicts :
the time it appears in the replay: 4:18:40

so I confirm the sites proposed in September will be those of Argentina, South Africa, Belgium/France, Rwanda, but not Romania or France (landing beaches).

To update :
https://www.worldheritagesite.org/nominated/2023#

Add South Africa (Mandela sites) but remove Romania and France (landing beaches)

Author elsslots
Admin
#45 | Posted: 25 Jan 2023 11:15 | Edited by: elsslots 
OK! I am still having trouble finding the history of the Mandela sites (if they've ever submitted a complete dossier for this). Will look again

-> Nothing there, have looked back to 2015. The only other possibility is that they submitted one for 2023 (so by Feb 1, 2022). We have no records of this yet.

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 Future handling of sites of memory associated with recent conflicts

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