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Filling Up the Gaps

 
 
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Author kkanekahn
Partaker
#121 | Posted: 8 Apr 2014 10:57 
Assif:
http://www.international.icomos.org/world_heritage/gaps.pdf


Indus valley civilisation (2300-1750 BC); Indo-Aryan states (1500-600 BC)-
Dholavira, Lothal(World's 1st dockyard), Kalibangan (World's 1st plough field), Harappa
Kalibangan and Harappa are not so authentic. Dholavira is a major gap

Pre-Mauryan Period and Mauryan Empire (600-185 BC), Asoka, Northern kingdoms-
Nalanda university is much larger than sompura mahavihara and Taxila
Sacred Buddhist route including Sarnath, Kausambi and Kusinagar, Vaisali

Kingdoms in South India; Cholas, Hoysalas, Hindu Vijayanagar Empire-
South India is least represented in whole India despite its rich heritage.
South Indian temples of Meenakshi, Kanchipuram and Srirangam
Hoysala temples in Belur, Halebedu and Somnathpura (most important phase of Dravidan architecture)
Kerala temples of Padmanabhaswamy and Vaikunthanath
Kakatiya monuments of Warangal (Ramappa temple, Thousand pillars temple). Pattadkal can be also extended to include Badami and Aihole (Represent South Indian Cave architecture)

North India (300-1200 AD ) Forts of Rajasthan are well represented. It may extended to include some privately owned forts like Gwalior, Mehrangarh and Junagarh (Bikaner)
Stepwells are not at all represented (Rani ki Vav and Chand Baori)
Jain temples are also not represented which have fine carvings and decorations (Dilwara Temples, Ranakpur Temple). Sacred mountains of Girnar and Palitana may be also treated as gaps.

Regional kingdoms in the north (Bengal, Malwa, Gujarat, Jaunpur, Kashmir)-
Bengal-Terracotta Temples of Bishnupur
Malwa- Mandu(example of central Indian Islamic city)
Gujarat- Ahmedabad (Already represented by Champaner)
Jaunpur, Kashmir - North Indian Islamic monuments are well represented
Maratha empire in Maharashtra- There are many Maratha forts but forts in India are well represented

Islamic Kingdoms of Deccan- Not at all represented.
Golconda fort- Having wonderful acoustic property (A clap can be heard upto the palace making it one of the strongest fort in all over India). Also famous for dimond trade.
Gol gombuz-2nd Largest dome in all over world and largest in Asia till modern Era
Sikh Kingdom- Harmandir Sahib
Mughal Empire- Well represented but may include Kashmir gardens

Modern Era- Chandigarh (a masterpiece of Modern town planning).
Tibetan architecture is not well represented. Monasteries of Ladakh may feature here.

Author Durian
Partaker
#122 | Posted: 8 Apr 2014 20:52 
Assif:
The report includes no definition. As examples of inscribed sites Independence Hall and St. Catherine are given. I find it odd to be honest.


Thanks Assif, but the two examples are very good to give us a proper definition! It seem that judicial is not the meaning of this "Justice" but as a creation of basic modern fundamental rights.

Independence Hall is the place where US Declaration of Independence signed, the first document about equal right and self determination, and St Catherine is at least well known among law students for Achtiname of Muhammad, the first document about freedom to worship.

These fundamental rights are further developed as UN Human Rights. From this meanings I don't think Nuremburg Trial is a site to fill the gap. The trial used human right as argument but not the place to develop these concept. In my opinion US's Civil Right Movement Sites is the TWHS that can fill the gap and possibly Runnymede where Magna Carta signed.

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#123 | Posted: 9 Apr 2014 01:39 | Edited by: Solivagant 
A "problem" with a number of these as potential WHS is that they are places where something relating to "Justice" happened rather than tangible remains with direct rather than purely associative value.

Could I suggest the Ashoka Rock Edicts under this category? We visited one of these last November at Shahbazgarhi which is on Pakistan's T List (as is another at Manshera) - http://www.worldheritagesite.org/sites/t1880.html
Others are scattered across the Indian subcontinent

They are of course very "tangible" and relate directly to the subject! They date to c 250BCE and, although Buddhist in general philosophy, touch on a range of moral and social matters including
a. Exercise of Justice and treatment of Prisoners
"It is my desire that there should be uniformity in law and uniformity in sentencing. I even go this far, to grant a three-day stay for those in prison who have been tried and sentenced to death. During this time their relatives can make appeals to have the prisoners' lives spared. If there is none to appeal on their behalf, the prisoners can give gifts in order to make merit for the next world, or observe fasts. Pilar Edict Nb4 (S. Dhammika)
In the twenty-six years since my coronation prisoners have been given amnesty on twenty-five occasions. Pilar Edict Nb5 (S. Dhammika)"

b. Freedom of Religion (somewhat predating the Achtiname!)
"All religions should reside everywhere, for all of them desire self-control and purity of heart. Rock Edict Nb7 (S. Dhammika)
Here (in my domain) no living beings are to be slaughtered or offered in sacrifice. Rock Edict Nb1 (S. Dhammika)
Contact (between religions) is good. One should listen to and respect the doctrines professed by others. Beloved-of-the-Gods, King Piyadasi, desires that all should be well-learned in the good doctrines of other religions. Rock Edict Nb12 (S. Dhammika)"

(Quotes from Wiki which, is in turn, quoting a modern Buddhist writer- there are other translations)

Author Durian
Partaker
#124 | Posted: 9 Apr 2014 03:27 
Solivagant:
A "problem" with a number of these as potential WHS is that they are places where something relating to "Justice" happened rather than tangible remains with direct rather than purely associative value. Could I suggest the Ashoka Rock Edicts under this category?


In my opinion the Ashoka Rock Edicts is more "solid" than Independence Hall or St. Catherine. Gortyn Code in Crete is also another possible site.

Author kkanekahn
Partaker
#125 | Posted: 9 Apr 2014 04:02 
Solivagant:
Could I suggest the Ashoka Rock Edicts under this category?


I have visited many of these edicts (nearly 12 edicts) and do not think they are attractive.
Undoubtedly they have inscription date to c 250BCE but these do not deserve to make into WH list (No OUV, at least according to me).

They just give description about Ashoka's law and empire.

Author kkanekahn
Partaker
#126 | Posted: 9 Apr 2014 04:08 | Edited by: kkanekahn 
Solivagant:
A "problem" with a number of these as potential WHS


I think many of these Indian sites can easily WH sites. However, in India there are many local issues.
There are many residents within 200m radius of sites and they do not want to shift anywhere(therefore management problem).
Some temple priests do not want to see their temple as WH Site.Sacred cities of Varanasi and Kanchipuram do not feature in the list due to the temple management committees.

Similarly private forts and palace owner do not want WH site (like Mehrangarh, Jaigarh).

India withdraw Harmandir Sahib from the list (even after green signal from ICMOS) due to the protest of priests

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#127 | Posted: 9 Apr 2014 05:17 | Edited by: Solivagant 
kkanekahn:
Solivagant:
A "problem" with a number of these as potential WHS
I think many of these Indian sites can easily WH sites. However, in India there are many local issues.

I think you have misunderstood my point on this - My comment had nothing to do with your list of "Indian Empire sites". I was referring solely to Durian's previous post on the subject of gaps for the theme of "Justice" and some of the potential sites which had been suggested - e.g Runnymede, St Catherine's Monastery as the "home of the Achtiname" and the Nuremburg Trial Court. The problem with them is that they are all primarily "associative" in terms of their relationship to the theme of "Justice" - but the WHS scheme is about tangible/non moveable heritage.

kkanekahn:
I have visited many of these edicts (nearly 12 edicts) and do not think they are attractive...... They just give description about Ashoka's law and empire.

Well - at the moment, inscription as a WHS doesn't depend on "attractiveness"! As for "just" giving a description about Ashoka's Law etc. The Edicts are widely regarded as a siginificant step for the development of Human Rights. If you search on (say) Ashoka Edicts AND UDHR you will find numerous papers linking the 2. I choose this one put up by a Human Rights Group which puts the Edicts in its select group of signifcant stages in the evolution of HR. I would have thought a contemporaneous carving of the Edicts as part of their dissemination throughout the Empire did potentially have OUV.
https://sites.google.com/site/humanrightsevolution/udhr

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#128 | Posted: 9 Apr 2014 05:19 
hubert:
Cittie of York? Old Bank of England? Princess Louise?

I don't want to hijack this topic, just to say Hubert has excellent taste in pubs.

Will let the conversation get back to more important matters, and find a better thread for that conversation to sit in.

Author kkanekahn
Partaker
#129 | Posted: 9 Apr 2014 05:37 | Edited by: kkanekahn 
Solivagant:
As for "just" giving a description about Ashoka's Law etc. The Edicts are widely regarded as a siginificant step for the development of Human Rights. If you search on (say) Ashoka Edicts AND UDHR you will find numerous papers linking the


I also agree that Ashoka's rule is a significant step for the development of Human Rights and we are able to know about that through edicts. But, it is Ashoka's law (not his edicts) will be treated as OUV.

Author Assif
Partaker
#130 | Posted: 9 Apr 2014 06:37 
Since I got no answer I am here repeating my former question.

I would be happy to adopt's hubert's former suggestion to create a Filling Up the Gaps List. This would include some of the best sites that fill each of the listed gaps. Of course there would remain many sites worthy of inscription, that are not a gap, but that is fine.

Before starting this project I would like to raise a question regarding the thematic studies. There are several of them listed here (astrological sites, rock art, volcanoes, karst formations, marine sites, deserts, geological formations). How should they be treated?

Let us take the marine sites thematic study as an example. It lists the following sites as gaps to be filled:

1) Scotia Sea
2) Agulhas
3) Easter Island
4) Benguela
5) Gulf of Guinea
6) Arabian Sea
7) Central Indian Ocean Islands
8) Humboldt Current
9) Northwest Atlantic

From these only numbers 4,6 and 7 are on the IUCN gap list. On the other hand, marine Fiji which in the IUCN gap report is not on this list. How should we go about with such reports when compiling a Filling Up the Gaps List?

The situation becomes even more complicated when it comes to such thematic studies as Caribbean cultural sites. This may well indicate gap within the range of Caribbean cultural sites, but are these truly worthy of being considered universal gaps in the list?

Author kkanekahn
Partaker
#131 | Posted: 9 Apr 2014 07:34 
Assif:
On the other hand, marine Fiji which in the IUCN gap report is not on this list. How should we go about with such reports when compiling a Filling Up the Gaps List?


Marine Fiji is obviously a major gap and should be included in Marine gaps. I can understand that it is not always possible to cover all the gaps while drafting a document.

I personally think that all the Caribbean cultural sites do not have OUV. We have to consider these sites while discussing about gap analysis.

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#132 | Posted: 17 Apr 2014 22:55 
kkanekahn:
I have visited many of these edicts (nearly 12 edicts) and do not think they are attractive.
Undoubtedly they have inscription date to c 250BCE but these do not deserve to make into WH list (No OUV, at least according to me).



Coincidentally I note that an example of the Ashoka Rock Edicts has just been added by India to its T List - the ones at Dhauli as part of the Bubaneswar site!! So, with the pair of Pakistani ones that makes 3 so far.

Author elsslots
Admin
#133 | Posted: 17 May 2014 12:40 
bojboj:
10) tropical montane forests of Sumatra, Philippines and Sulawesi

This will now be covered by Mount Hamiguitan (recommended for inscription in 2014). Interestingly, IUCN says there's room for more, even for more Philippine natural sites showing the islands unique endemism and biodiversity

Author bojboj
Partaker
#134 | Posted: 21 May 2014 03:31 
elsslots:
bojboj:
10) tropical montane forests of Sumatra, Philippines and Sulawesi

This will now be covered by Mount Hamiguitan (recommended for inscription in 2014). Interestingly, IUCN says there's room for more, even for more Philippine natural sites showing the islands unique endemism and biodiversity


The upcoming success of the Mt. Hamiguitan inscription will be a celebration of two "firsts" - this will be the first natural TERRESTRIAL site (the other two - Tubbataha and Puerto Princesa Subterranean River - are marine sites); and the first MINDANAO World Heritage site.

There is hope that the Hamiguitan success will inspire other protected area management boards to upgrade their conservation framework - that it is truly possible to integrate ancestral domain claims of indigenous people, biodiversity & wildlife conservation, and economic development of communities.

Based on identified terrestrial biogeographic regions (map here: icem.com.au/documents/biodiversity/bioplan/philippines.pdf), the Philippines has potential contribution to fill in these gaps through these sites nominated under (x) criterion:

Batanes (to be re-categorized as a mixed site)
Northern & Southern Luzon - Taal Volcano Protected landscape, Batangas (2006)
Cordillera - Mt. Pulag National Park (2006)
Sierra Madre - Northern Sierra Madre Natural Park and outlying areas inclusive of the buffer zone (2006)
Mindoro - Mts. Iglit-Baco National Park (2006)
Calamian - Coron Island Natural Biotic Area (2006)
Palawan - El Nido-Taytay Managed Resource Protected Area (2006)
Mindanao - Mt. Matutum Protected Landscape (2006); Agusan Marsh Wildlife Sanctuary (2006); Mount Apo Natural Park (2009)
Zamboanga - Mt. Malindang Range Natural Park (2006)
Liguasan - Ligawasan Marsh (2006)
Sulu Turtle Island - Turtle Islands Wildlife Sanctuary (2006)

Other notes:
1) IUCN evaluation report also mentioned Mt. Kitanglad (currently not in tentative list)
2) What I think should be added in this list is Romblon archipelago (considered the Galapagos of the Philippines)
3) Until the Philippines and Malaysia settle the Sabah dispute, it will be difficult to nominate the Turtle Islands property, as a few of the islands are within Sabah. "Transnational nomination/property" will overlap with the border dispute.

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