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Filling Up the Gaps

 
 
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Author Assif
Partaker
#106 | Posted: 2 Apr 2014 06:27 | Edited by: Assif 
And finally to ICOMOS category C:

1) expressions of oral traditions,
music, education, philosophy, health and justice -
We now have Beyreuth for music. Leipzig is currently seeking inscription for its musical heritage.
Education is already represented by several universities (Alcala, Salamanca, Bauhaus, UNAM, Caracas, Coimbra, Monticello).
Philosophy could for example be represented through ideologic sites. We already have some places were democracy evolved (Acropolis, Thingvellir, Independence Hall, Westminster) as well as Civil Movement sites on the American T-list.
The Kibbutz and Communist Moscow could be interesting examples of communism currently not represented neither as a WHS nor on the T-lists. Other types of authoritative regimes are also unrepresented (good examples might be Astana and Pyongyan).
Health is not currently represented. On the T-list we have Albert Schweizer's hospital in Gabon.
Justice is not currently represented. The Nuremberg Trials Court is now attempting an inscription.

2) rural settlements - Although less present than urban settlements, I think this gap is now closed with multiple occurences on the list.

3) modern towns (19th century onward) - modern town planning is also well represented now (Brasilia, Cienfuegos, Rabat, Paris, Budapest, Vienna, Le Havre, Grand Bassam, Chaux de Fonds, Lunenburg, Saltaire, Tel Aviv, Yaroslavl).

4) necropolises - equally well represented now (Al-Hijr, Thebes, Petra, Humayun's tomb, Gebel Barkal, Bat, Cyrene, Makli, Nisa, Paphos, Memphis, Syracuse, Pecs, Ibiza, Cervetri). This is also related to some dynastic burial places such as Buganda and Koguryo.

5) industrial landscapes - currently 8 on the list, which is not that bad (Blaenavon, Cornwall, Derwent, Falun, Las Medulas, Sewell, Tequila and Calais). Numerous T-list candidates including several Asian ones.

6) Zoroastrianism - Now well represented (Bisotun, Pasargadae, Persepolis, Baku, Taxila and Takht-e-Soleyman).

7) living indigenous beliefs - Now well represented (Tsodilo, Konso, Uluru, Ambohimanga, Asante, Roi Mata, Bandiagara, Mijikenda, Tongariro, Osun-Osogbo).

Author Assif
Partaker
#107 | Posted: 5 Apr 2014 13:42 
8) hunting-gathering-fishing -
Hunting-gathering has been reviewed above under transhumance.
Fishing is now represented by Saloum and Red Bay.

9) places of mythical origin -
This category is not truly clear beyond maybe some sacred places such as Lumbini, Jerusalem or Abohimanga. If I understand this correctly it is represented on the list.

10) cultural routes -
The Silk Road has some representation and will have some more. Same for Santiago de Compostella. Quebrada de Humahuaca and Incense Route are also present. The Slave Route is on the T-list in several African countries.

11) migration-nomadism-slavery -
Nomadism is covered under transhumance.
Migration is now represented in the Statue of Liberty, Australian convict sites and Aapravasi Ghat.
Slavery is rather well represented by Cartagena, Ciudad Velha, Goree, Kunta Kinteh, Mozambique, Ghana forts, Kilwa, Potosi, Vinales, Willemstad, Zanzibar and Le Morne.

12) land roads - Land roads are currently onlz represented by Camino Real. Qhapaq Nan and Via Apia are on the T-lists.

13) aviation - Except of Dayton sites (USA) on the T-list there is no representation.

14) energy conversion and utilisation (wind power,
water energy, steam, coal, electricity, thermonuclear energy,
etc.) -
Bikini and Hiroshima represent thermonuclear energy.
Other forms of energy conversion are not present on the list.
T lists includes Ostrava (coal) and Rjukan (electricity).

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#108 | Posted: 5 Apr 2014 15:59 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Assif:
aviation - Except of Dayton sites (USA) on the T-list there is no representation.

"Hangar Y" on French T List and "l'Aeropostale" on Senegal's

Assif:
Energy conversion and utilisation wind power, water energy, steam, coal, electricity, thermonuclear energy,
etc.) -
Bikini and Hiroshima represent thermonuclear energy.
Other forms of energy conversion are not present on the list.

I would presume that Wiindmills, water mills, steam railways etc of which there are quite a lot would count as "Energy Conversions"?

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#109 | Posted: 7 Apr 2014 07:12 
Assif:
14) energy conversion and utilisation (wind power,
water energy, steam, coal, electricity, thermonuclear energy,
etc.)

I was down in the UK's former T-list site of the New Forest a week or so ago, and looming over it is the Oil Refinery at Fawley. It got me thinking, is there anything on a T-list anywhere concerning oil in any way shape or form?

I can't think of any sites directly associated with it.
It is amazing if there isn't as it is perhaps the defining aspect of the modern and post modern economies. Is it that Oil is just far to lucrative to have heritage folks meddling in it? Is the continual fight between conservationists and Oil companies one that renders any form of conversation between them out of bounds?

Whilst I'm not putting forward Fawley as a potential site, I do rather love it's ruthless utilitarian aesthetic, and like the cookery at Zollverein I actually think it is quite beautiful.

Author Khuft
Partaker
#110 | Posted: 7 Apr 2014 07:23 
meltwaterfalls:
Is it that Oil is just far to lucrative to have heritage folks meddling in it?


I'm not aware of any such site on a T-List. The US has some oil-related sites listed as National Historic Landmarks, e.g. the Drake Oil well in Pennsylvania and Spindletop oil field in Texas, but I'm not sure how authentic they are (Drake well seems to be reconstructed).

Author Durian
Partaker
#111 | Posted: 7 Apr 2014 10:07 | Edited by: Durian 
Assif:
Justice is not currently represented


I miss old days when UK's House of Lord still have judicial power, reading their opinion was like a novel of justice! Anyway, that may make Westminster represents the Justice? Our English members may not agree!

Assif:
Communist Moscow could be interesting examples of communism currently not represented neither as a WHS nor on the T-lists


Actually we have! The Lenin's Tombs in Red Square is considered the best example of USSR's architecture in the nomination dossier!

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#112 | Posted: 7 Apr 2014 11:39 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
Durian:
that may make Westminster represents the Justice

Hmm I guess it depends on how pcky you want to be. When it was inscribed it was the highest court in the land, and its OUV would be partially tied to that role. However that function was fully removed 5 years ago.

I think the four remaining Inns of Court and the adjacent Royal Courts of Justice would probably be my choice for a worthy new London WHS. I've never put them forward as I doubt there would be any desire to pursue them and also I didn't want to seem overtly nationalistic. But they are one of my favourite things in London, not generally on visitors itineraries, and oases of calm in the centre of the city. The fact that they are the surrounds of my favourite pub crawls is also a bonus.

Though that did get me thinking about Mumbai, which is surprisingly similar to that part of London, just a lot hotter with more cricket and rubbish strewn around. But the Victorian aspects of Victorian & Art Deco Ensemble of Mumbai are very much focused on judicial purposes, especially the High Court, so that could be a gap filler.

Durian:
Lenin's Tombs in Red Square is considered the best example of USSR's architecture in the nomination dossier

Hmm... an example yes, the best example? no.

Author Assif
Partaker
#113 | Posted: 7 Apr 2014 14:05 
Moscow Kremlin is mostly inscribed for its Kremlin architecture, not for its modernist Communist heritage.
Westminster is mostly inscribed for its Abbey and the Palace considered an important representation of democracy. However, it is not a court and I do not think it fits the category of oral traditions of justice.

Author Durian
Partaker
#114 | Posted: 7 Apr 2014 20:45 
Assif:
However, it is not a court and I do not think it fits the category of oral traditions of justice.


Talking about justice, I would like to ask Assif what is the meaning of Justice in this report? Justice can be judiciary system like court, tribunal, tribal council or even the now disfunctioned House of Lord's judicial power, but also including prison, police station, solicitor office, etc! Or the creation of rules of laws or jurisprudence which may include many parliament that influence the develop of worldwide legal and judicial systems like UN, US Congress, UK Westminster, French Assembly or EU parliament in Bussels or directly influence like Vatican or law schools like Al-Azhar, Salamanca, Oxford?

Author Assif
Partaker
#115 | Posted: 8 Apr 2014 06:23 
Durian:
Talking about justice, I would like to ask Assif what is the meaning of Justice in this report?


You are right Durian. The report includes no definition. As examples of inscribed sites Independence Hall and St. Catherine are given. I find it odd to be honest.

Solivagant:
It seems to me that your excellent analysis of the "missing" sites under the listed sub-categories grinds a lot smaller than do the currently inscribed sites in respect of other potential "chronological-regional" categories. I think of the major historical Indian cultures and empires (Maratha, Chola, Gupta, Vijayanagara etc) which also have major gaps.


Going through the ICOMOS report, there is an analysis of Indian cultures on page 55 that is rather detailed. It seems all categories are represented.
This would make a difference to other B categories such as Anatolian, Precolumbian or Mesopotamian cultures.

Author Euloroo
Partaker
#116 | Posted: 8 Apr 2014 06:51 | Edited by: Euloroo 
meltwaterfalls:
I think the four remaining Inns of Court and the adjacent Royal Courts of Justice would probably be my choice for a worthy new London WHS.


Definitely agree with that. I found one of my a comments to that effect from a few years ago. Extend the area into Bloomsbury and you've covered off most of Category C 1). You can throw in 3) as well.

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#117 | Posted: 8 Apr 2014 07:17 
Euloroo:
Definitely agree with that. I found one of my a comments to that effect from a few years ago.

Can't believe I missed that one from a few years back, you basically picked out 'my' London, i.e. the bits I love and spend time in. Though I would stretch it a little more east up to Farringdon, and down to the River to include Fleet Street and the remaining Inns of Court, but yeah would happily support that proposal.

Author hubert
Partaker
#118 | Posted: 8 Apr 2014 07:30 | Edited by: hubert 
meltwaterfalls:
I think the four remaining Inns of Court and the adjacent Royal Courts of Justice would probably be my choice for a worthy new London WHS.

would have my support, also one of my favorite places in London, fine architecture, great atmosphere, the Temple Church, a quirky museum nearby the Sir John Soane's.
Another potential London WHS that comes in mind is the Highgate Cemetery East and West.

meltwaterfalls:
The fact that they are the surrounds of my favourite pub crawls is also a bonus.

Cittie of York? Old Bank of England? Princess Louise?

meltwaterfalls:
It got me thinking, is there anything on a T-list anywhere concerning oil in any way shape or form?

Not on the T-list, but a few months ago I found the news that Iran (or at least the Director General of Cultural Heritage and Tourism of Khuzestan Province) suggest the first oil well in Mideast for world heritage. But it was the only reference on that topic that I found (in English), so hard to say whether this is a serious proposal.
http://www.isna.ir/en/news/92052917030/Iran-to-enlist-Mideast-first-industrial-legacy

a few pictures, not very convincing in my opinion
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/36801509

Assif:
Education is already represented by several universities

A non-university site that would fit in this category is the Francke Foundation (German T-list), planned for nomination in 2016
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francke_Foundations

Author kkanekahn
Partaker
#119 | Posted: 8 Apr 2014 09:04 
Assif:
Going through the ICOMOS report, there is an analysis of Indian cultures on page 55 that is rather detailed. It seems all categories are represented.
This would make a difference to other B categories such as Anatolian, Precolumbian or Mesopotamian cultures.


Which ICMOS document do you refer to? Can you give me the link?

I also think that India is not well represented in WH list. I can prepare a list about gaps of Indian empire and share it.

Author Assif
Partaker
#120 | Posted: 8 Apr 2014 09:59 
kkanekahn:
Which ICMOS document do you refer to? Can you give me the link?


http://www.international.icomos.org/world_heritage/gaps.pdf

Now we have officially completed going through all the different categories proposed in both ICOMOS and IUCN reports and discussing them here.

I would be happy to adopt's hubert's former suggestion to create a Filling Up the Gaps List. This would include some of the best sites that fill each of the listed gaps. Of course there would remain many sites worthy of inscription, that are not a gap, but that is fine.

Before starting this project I would like to raise a question regarding the thematic studies. There are several of them listed here (astrological sites, rock art, volcanoes, karst formations, marine sites, deserts, geological formations). How should they be treated?

Let us take the marine sites thematic study as an example. It lists the following sites as gaps to be filled:

1) Scotia Sea
2) Agulhas
3) Easter Island
4) Benguela
5) Gulf of Guinea
6) Arabian Sea
7) Central Indian Ocean Islands
8) Humboldt Current
9) Northwest Atlantic

From these only numbers 4,6 and 7 are on the IUCN gap list. On the other hand, marine Fiji which in the IUCN gap report is not on this list. How should we go about with such reports when compiling a Filling Up the Gaps List?

The situation becomes even more complicated when it comes to such thematic studies as Caribbean cultural sites. This may well indicate gap within the range of Caribbean cultural sites, but are these truly worthy of being considered universal gaps in the list?

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