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Adding Categories to TWHS

 
 
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Author Solivagant
Partaker
#76 | Posted: 6 Nov 2021 17:20 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Have just realised - Turkey's T List is so long that they didn't all copy!! Herewith the rest from "S to Z"!!

Seljuk Caravanserais on the route from Denizli to Dogubeyazit – Structures Civic & Public Works
Sivrihisar Great Mosque – Religious Structure Islamic
St. Nicholas Church – Religious Structure Christian
St. Paul Church, St. Pauls Well and surrounding historic quarters – Religious Structure Christian
Sultan Bayezid II Complex: A Center of Medical Treatment – Structures Civic & Public Works
Sümela Monastery (The Monastery of Virgin Mary) – Religious Structure Christian
The Ancient City of Sardis and the Lydian Tumuli of Bin Tepe – Arch Site Classical Other
The Bodrum Castle – Military & Fortifications
The Bridge of Justinian - Human Activity Transport & Trade
The Bridge of Uzunköprü - Human Activity Transport & Trade
The Historical Port City of Izmir – Urban Landscape Arab & M Eastern
The Malabadi Bridge - Human Activity Transport & Trade
The Theatre and Aqueducts of the Ancient City of Aspendos – Structures Civic & Public Works
The Tombstones of Ahlat the Urartian and Ottoman citadel - Burials
The Underground Water Structures in Gaziantep; - Secular Structure Civic & Public works
Tomb of Ahi Evran - Burial / Religious site Islamic
Trading Posts and Fortif on Genoese Trade Routes from the Mediterranean to the Black Sea
Tushpa/Van Fortress, the Mound and the Old City of Van – Military & Fortif
Vespasianus Titus Tunnel – Structure Civic & Public Works
Wooden Roofed and Wooden Columned Mosques in Anatolia – Religious Structure Islamic
Yesemek Quarry and Sculpture Workshop – Factories and Industry
Yivli Minaret Mosque - Religious Structure Islamic
Yıldız Palace Complex - Palace
Zerzevan Castle and Mithraeum – Military & Fortif (The Mithraeum is a feature of the castle so ignore)
Zeynel Abidin Mosque Complex and Mor Yakup (Saint Jacob) Church – Religious Structure Islamic/ Religious Structure Christian (Need both I think??)

Author Astraftis
Partaker
#77 | Posted: 6 Nov 2021 19:44 | Edited by: Astraftis 
So, here is a Mediterranean selection! Enjoy! It was a nice trip!

- Albania -

L'amphitheatre de Durres - Ancient Rome; Byzantine - The byzantine church inside the theatre seems to be interesting and a main point for the site to distinguish it from other theatres
Les tombes de la Basse Selca - Burial; Classical (other) - Ha! Where do we put Illyrians? "Classical" is kind of a stretch
The Ancient City of Apollonia - Ancient Rome; Ancient Greece; Byzantine - As many other sites in the region, it has a long story. Greek foundations, but the Roman part seems to be central in the description, even if of course the area was more under Eastern influence. And there are even turtles!
The Castle of Bashtova - Military and Fortifications - Venetian fortress

- Croatia -

Castle of Veliki Tabor - Military and fortifications - It is a castle, after all
City of Motovun - Medieval Europe; Military and fortifications -
Diocletian's Palace and the Historical Nucleus of Split - Urban Continuity; Ancient Rome - I'd go for the same as the main site, for which the Roman part is determinant, but as it often happens the temporal span is extended to at least Middle Ages
Hermitage Blaca - Christian; Karst landscapes and caves -
Historical-town planning ensemble of Ston - Urban continuity -
Kornati and Telašćica - Insular -
Lonjsko Polje Nature Park - Continuing - Another site where wetlands are important. By the way, I feel we miss a category for "Pasturing" alongside "Agriculture".
Lubenice - Urban continuity; Maritime -
Primošten Vineyards - Agriculture -
The Danube Limes (Croatia) - Ancient Rome; Military and fortifications - Yes! Let's extend those limites, dammit!
The historic town of Korcula - Medieval Europe; Maritime - Home of Marko Polo
Tvrda (Fort) in Osijek - Post-Medieval Europe; Military and fortifications -
Varazdin - Post-Medieval Europe - The most important part is the Renaissance/Baroque one
Velebit Mountain - Mountain; Karst landscapes and caves - Pits of up to 1km depth!!!
Zadar - Episcopal complex - Christian; Medieval Europe -

- Greece -

Ancient Greek Theatres - Ancient Greece; Civic and public works -
Ancient Lavrion - Ancient Greece; Mines - The surprise of the mining aspect
Ancient Towers of the Aegean Sea - Military and fortifications; Maritime - Really fascinating, I think they have a potential
Archaeological site of Ancient Messene - Ancient Greece -
Archaeological Site of Nikopolis - Ancient Rome; Byzantine -
Fortress of Spinalonga - Military and fortifications; Insular - We also do not have anything specific for sanitary, hospital-like places, it might make sense, though. As much as I liked my visit, I can just shake my head at the thought of its nomiantion
Gorge of Samaria National Park - Eroded -
Late Medieval Bastioned Fortifications in Greece - Military and fortifications; Maritime - We should have a category just for venetian fortresses... (or this may just depend on the geocultural area I am reviewing)
Minoan Palatial Centres - Classical (other); Palace -
National Park of Dadia - Lefkimi - Souflion - Forest -
Petrified Forest of Lesvos - Non-hominid fossils; Forest - More precisely, of the vegetal kind. But here I feel the lack of a category for more general geological occurrences than karst. It seems to be in the western part (not the eastern as in the description)
The Area of the Prespes Lakes - Rivers and lakes; Byzantine - Another wetland, with ekklisìes
The broader region of Mount Olympus - Mountain; Associative - The second category is just a hazardous attempt to highlight the cultural importance of this site going far beyond its mountainness (and let's call it Olympos)
Zagorochoria - North Pindos National Park - Mountain; Continuing -

- Libya -

Archaeological site of Ghirza - Ancient Rome; Military and Fortifications - Originally a Roman outpost
Haua Fteah Cave - Human Evolution; Karst landscapes and caves -
The Archaeological Site of Ptolemais - Ancient Greece; Ancient Rome - It seems that both historical moments are relevant. I'd say that urban continuity is lost...

- Montenegro -

'Biogradska gora' National Park - Forest; Mountain - "Great vertical articulation", from description it has everything a natural site could desire. The virgin forest is seen as the most important characteristic
Ancient and Primeval Beech Forests of the Carpathians and Other Regions of Europe - Forest -
Cetinje Historic Core - Urban continuity - Again a wholesale city
Doclea - Ancient Rome -
Old Town of Bar - Medieval Europe -
Ulcinj Old town - Urban continuity - All periods together

- Slovenia -

Classical Karst (in Slovene language: Klasicni kras) - Karst landscapes and caves - Not much to say, THE Karst
Franja Partisan Hospital - Civic and public work; Military and fortifications - The focus is on its role as haven in war times, I suppose. It's a pity it was nearly washed away.
Fuzina Hills in Bohinj - Continuing - Such proposals would deserve a "Lost traditions" tag. Nonetheless, the dossier presents it as a still iving
The Walk of Peace from the Alps to the Adriatic – Heritage of the First World War - Associative - Another actually intangible proposal. It has much of everything, with an abstract theme, so this explains my choice

- Tunisia - (sorry to have snatched this from @Solivagant's antialphabetical progression)

Chott El Jerid - Rivers and lakes; Fauna -
Frontières de l'Empire romain : Limes du Sud tunisien - Military and fortifications; Ancient Rome - Yes! More limites! They make me feel safer.
Habitat troglodytique et le monde des ksour du Sud tunisien - Residence; Karst landscapes and caves - I saw that Matera, which is maybe similar in spirit, is listed as "Urban continuity"
La Table de Jugurtha à Kalaat-Senen - Eroded -
Le complexe hydraulique romain de Zaghouan-Carthage - Ancient Rome; Civil and public works -
Le Permien marin de Jebel Tebaga - Non-hominid fossils -
Le site archéologique de Sbeïtla - Ancient Rome -
Le Stratotype de la limite Crétacé-Tertiaire (limite K-T) - Non-hominid fossils - The cousin of Stevns klint!
Les carrières antiques de marbre numidique de Chimtou - Mines; Ancient Rome -
Les Mausolées Royaux de Numidie, de la Maurétanie et les monuments funéraires pré-islamiques - Classical (other); Phoenician; Prehistoric - This extension is also of the temporal kind
Médina de Sfax - Urban planning; Arabic and Middle-Eastern -
Oasis de Gabès - Agriculture; Continuing -
Parc National d'El Feija - Forest; Mountain -
Parc National de Bouhedma - Desert - Arid environment
Rammadiya d'El Magtaa (El Mekta), le site princeps de la culture capsienne - Prehistoric - Capsian culture
Île de Djerba - Clearly defined - For want of better alternatives for a site that seems to be everything and nothing

* * * * *

So, I had some problems in finding a category for all those historical city centers which do not have such a particular characteristic, apart being scenic, or... historical. In a sense, all are continuosly inhabited, but "Urban continuity" feels to abstract. In the Balkans, they're particularly fond of them. I liked Greece's list, I think it goes beyond Classical expectations. Also Tunisia's one seems to be promising. Unfortunately, both countries seem to want to put forward the dullest proposals among them... Slovenia's list in my opinion wins the award for "most abstract tentative list".

Author Astraftis
Partaker
#78 | Posted: 6 Nov 2021 19:55 | Edited by: Astraftis 
elsslots:
LUX
No TWHS

Oh, a pity! :-(

Kudos to Solivagant for the tough endeavour of taking monumental Turkey's T-list!!!

Solivagant:
Eflatun Pinar: The Hittite Spring Sanctuary – Arch Site Nr Eastern

I think this could be Classical (other) in a sense, even if it is much more remote than Graeco-Roman Classical period (same for Phrygians). Near-Eastern sounds much more recent to me, let's say from the Arab conquests onwards. This again raises the problem of purely geographical, not cultural categories.

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#79 | Posted: 7 Nov 2021 02:04 | Edited by: Solivagant 
@Astraftis - enjoyed the quick trip around the Med and revisiting some of its T List sites!
It is interesting how we are all coming up with similar issues.
It might be worth putting up occasional "Post it" notes to remind us of issues to return to!.
Definition of "Classical" in "Classical (other)?
I have taken it to mean "contemporaneous with Greece/Rome ... heavily influenced by them but too small to have their own group" Hittites are too early for this. We have also lost the Sassanids among "Arch Site Nr Eastern" .....and they were contemporaneous with the Romans ....and a match for them! Nemrut Dag and the Hellenised Kingdom of Commogene has also been assigned to Arch Site Nr Eastern but was contemporaneous with, and taken over by, Rome

Author elsslots
Admin
#80 | Posted: 7 Nov 2021 03:15 | Edited by: elsslots 
Solivagant:
Definition of "Classical" in "Classical (other)?
I have taken it to mean "contemporaneous with Greece/Rome ... heavily influenced by them but too small to have their own group" Hittites are too early for this. We have also lost the Sassanids among "Arch Site Nr Eastern" .....and they were contemporaneous with the Romans ....and a match for them! Nemrut Dag and the Hellenised Kingdom of Commogene has also been assigned to Arch Site Nr Eastern but was contemporaneous with, and taken over by, Rome

It is tempting to give the bigger empires within it its own category, but remember that we have "Archeological Site Pre-Columbian" which covers anything from Inca to Maya to Aztec to Pueblo to the Buffalo jumping Plains people.

It could be an option to move Greece, Rome and Other all into Classical Antiquity. Many sites have been both Roman and Greek and were conquered from a regional classical "state".

Author elsslots
Admin
#81 | Posted: 7 Nov 2021 03:23 
Astraftis:
The Ancient City of Apollonia - Ancient Rome; Ancient Greece; Byzantine - As many other sites in the region, it has a long story. Greek foundations, but the Roman part seems to be central in the description, even if of course the area was more under Eastern influence. And there are even turtles!

I've added the turtles (Wildlife Fauna) as it is proposed as a mixed site

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#82 | Posted: 7 Nov 2021 03:29 
elsslots:
Buffalo jumping Plains people.

It could be an option to move Greece, Rome and Other all into Classical Antiquity. Many sites have been both Roman and Greek and were conquered from a regional classical "state".

That is the direction I was tending towards when we get round to discussing it....
But that too raises the need to define "Classical antiquity".. By area and time period....

Author elsslots
Admin
#83 | Posted: 7 Nov 2021 03:34 
Astraftis:
Historical-town planning ensemble of Ston - Urban continuity -

I'd go for cultural landscape continuing here, as it is mentioned in the text and also the focus on the salt pans and sentences like "developed in accordance with the given landscape".

Author elsslots
Admin
#84 | Posted: 7 Nov 2021 04:05 
Astraftis:
Ancient Greek Theatres - Ancient Greece; Civic and public works -

This is an interesting topic to consider as well. The Civic and Public Works category needs some explanation as well, I think we mean Public works in this sense : infrastructure projects, financed and constructed by the government. But the Greek/Roman (amphi)theatres were also built by the ruling parties for recreational use by the people, and in effect they were the same as the Sydney Opera House. So maybe rename category more into the direction of infrastructural works. Or make clear that we are not talking about ruins here (in general with Secular Structures) but fully functioning sites.

Author elsslots
Admin
#85 | Posted: 7 Nov 2021 04:15 
Astraftis:
Fortress of Spinalonga - Military and fortifications; Insular - We also do not have anything specific for sanitary, hospital-like places, it might make sense, though.

We have (some of) them in Civic and Public Works, that can be added as a 2nd category as in the proposed OUV it is named under criterion vi. Main category is Military and fortifications as that was the principal use for ages.
It cannot be Insular as it is not a mixed site.

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#86 | Posted: 7 Nov 2021 04:32 | Edited by: Solivagant 
elsslots:
This is an interesting topic to consider as well. The Civic and Public Works category needs some explanation as well, I think we mean Public works in this sense : infrastructure projects, financed and constructed by the government

This was another of my "Post it Note" topics!
It would be too restricting I think to limit "Civic and Public" works only to those put in place by government - different societies have had different ways of providing infrastructure - all original railways and many canals were paid for by shareholders!
We have had a number of "Hospitals" and are currently treating them in different ways. (A problematic word in English at least, since it can have meanings of palces for medical treatment and provision of shelter - and some "stuctures" have covered both). Some of these have been provided by eligious orders (both in Europe, and in Islamic societies where the külliyye "charitable centre" covering profane as well as religious functions is common. Does the mere presence of a mosque or chapel make the structure "Religious"?
Agree that a "ruined" example could/should (??) be treated differently from an extant example - but what about a non-ruined one but not still functioning as originally intended?
We need to decide which types of "infrastructure" get their own category - we have already decided that "Educational" is one such. I would have "Transport and Communication" as another (Bridges, Canals, Railways...), We could have Entertainment......
But, the more I try to "categorise the more I conclude that we should err on the side of having fewer, less specific categories. As long as the result isn't any with excessively large numbers of occurrences.

Meanwhile I will continue my "omegapsical" (@Astraftis!!) trawl (missing out Tunisia) through the world's countries by moving on to
Trinidad & Tobago, Togo, Tonga & Thailand.

Author elsslots
Admin
#87 | Posted: 7 Nov 2021 04:50 
Astraftis:
Les Mausolées Royaux de Numidie, de la Maurétanie et les monuments funéraires pré-islamiques - Classical (other); Phoenician; Prehistoric - This extension is also of the temporal kind

This is also a very difficult one. Looking at the proposed OUV I'd go for Burial and for Archaeological Site 'something': it's from the ancient Maghreb, which we haven't covered anywhere yet (not Sub-Sahara, not Near Eastern, not Egyptian)

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#88 | Posted: 7 Nov 2021 06:38 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Thailand
Ensemble of Phanom Rung, Muang Tam and Plai Bat Sanctuaries - Arch Site SE Asian
Monuments, Sites and Cultural Landscape of Chiang Mai, Capital of Lanna - Urban Landscape Asian (Although CL is in the title it isn't claimed anywhere in the text which is "extensive" and uses all the right words – Urban Planning etc. Main "comparator site is Luang Prabang; so suggest we use it as template)
Phra That Phanom, its related historic buildings and associated landscape - Religious Buddhist
Phuphrabat Historical Park – Rock Art OR CL Assoc (Rock Art isn't really enough to capture this site? – CL is mentioned in the text but I don't know what Thailand used in its earlier nominations for the site? )
The Ancient Town of Si Thep - Arch Site SE Asian
Wat Phra Mahathat Woramahawihan, Nakhon Si Thammarat – Religious Site Buddhist

Togo
Agglomér Aného-Glidji - Urban Landscape – African (17-19c town, colonial capital and sacred wood)
La réserve de faune d'Alédjo - (Mixed) Landscape Forest / ???? (The "Cultural" aspect consists of "a road cut deep into the rocks, and a catholic spiritual retreat called Foyer Avenir"!!!!)
Les Greniers des Grottes de Nok et de Mamproug – Urban Landscape African. (Had thought of using Bandiagara as template. But found it to be "Arch Site – African. Think this is wrong and should be "Urban Landscape – African as per Koutamakkou. The fact that the Greniers are no longer being used doesn't make it an "Archaeological site" )
Les palais des gouverneurs - Residence (of 19th C colonial governors – takes us back to the issue of "Palaces" v "Residences". This is called a "Palace" but wasn't used by royalty,)
Parc national de Fazao Mafakassa - Diverse Ecosystems ("transition between forest and savanna ecosystems" – yes this is unsatisfactory.....but what else??)
Parc national de la Kéran et la réserve de faune Oti-Mandouri – Wild life Fauna (Connected to Penjari so have used that as template.... We might as well be "wrong" consistently!!!)
Woold Homé – Transport and Trade ("a house built in 1835 to quietly continue the trade of slaves after its abolition by England in 1807. Slaves were confined in the caves, where they could not stand upright. It was used until the end of the 19th century.". I think we need to separate out Slavery related sites??)

Tonga
Lapita Pottery Archaeological Site – Arch Site Pacific
The Ancient Capitals of the Kingdom of Tonga – Arch Site Pacific (Includes some tombs but I don't see a need to separate them out)

Trinidad and Tobago
Banwari Trace Archaeological Site – Arch Site Pre Colombian
La Brea Pitch Lake - ????? (another "Geological/Geomorphological site for which we don't have an adequate category. But I can't identify one for the moment. The Natural Landscape section needs a rethink.)
Tobago Main Ridge Forest Reserve – Natural Landscape forest (Fauna or Flora not important enough by themselves)

Now to Tanzania and Tajikistan.

Author elsslots
Admin
#89 | Posted: 7 Nov 2021 07:02 | Edited by: elsslots 
I've added categories to 448/1725 TWHS now on the website, that's up to and including Astraftis's batch ending at Tunisia.

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#90 | Posted: 7 Nov 2021 11:28 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Tajikistan
Buddhistic cloister of Ajina-Tepa – Religious Structure Buddhist
Fann mountains - (Mixed) – Natural – Mountain/ ???? (I have used W Tien Shan as a template. I suggest we ignore the "mixed". The UNESCO text states "Territory of the parks includes famous object of abiocoen and historical and cultural; complexes" – but nothing else there or on the Web! Nice word "Abiocoen"!)
Khulbuk – the capital of ancient Khuttal – Arch Site – Near Eastern (but we are getting further and further away from the "Near East"!!)
Mausoleum of "Amir Khamza Khasti Podshoh" – Burial / Religious site Islamic
Mausoleum of "Hodja Nashron" - Burial/ Religious site Islamic
Mausoleum of "Khoja Mashkhad" - Burial / Religious site Islamic
Mausoleum of "Mukhammad Bashoro" - Burial / Religious site Islamic
Silk Roads Sites in Tajikistan - Human activity - Transport and Trade
Silk Roads: Zarafshan-Karakum Corridor - Human activity - Transport and Trade
State reserve Dashti Djum – Natural – Forests (Flora and Fauna not special enough to justify specific mention)
The Site of Ancient Town of Baitudasht IV – Arch Site Nr Eastern
The Site of Ancient Town of Pyanjekent – Arch Site Nr Eastern
The Site of Ancient Town of Shahristan (Kahkakha – Arch Site Nr Eastern
The Site of Ancient Town of Takhti-Sangin – Arch Site Nr Eastern
Tigrovaya Balka – Mixed Ecosystems ([i]Wetland, Forest, Desert etc)[/i]
Zakaznik Kusavlisay – Wild life - Flora (A botanical reserve whose main purpose is "is conservation of juniper forest massif.")
Zorkul State Reserve - Natural Diverse ecosystem (again unsatisfactory but this covers Lakes, mountains 4000 to 6000m, forest etc. Not strong enough for "mountain??)

Tanzania
Eastern Arc Mountains Forests of Tanzania - Natural Forest (could be Mountain or Forest or Flora or Fauna! Forests in mountains preserving floral and faunal endemism..... take your pick!!)
Gombe National Park - Fauna (for the Chimps)
Jozani - Chwaka Bay Conservation Area – Diverse ecosystems (forest, fauna, coral, mangrove, sea grass??)
Oldonyo Murwak – CL Associative (Maasai sacred area, Described as CL in UNESCO text)
The Central Slave and Ivory Trade Route – Human activity Transport and Trade (unless/until we have something slavery specific?)

Next Syria, Switzerland, Sweden and Suriname. Are these all not yet done Els?)

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