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Adding Categories to TWHS

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Author elsslots
#61 | Posted: 6 Nov 2021 06:40 
Historic Center of the Port City of Odessa - Urb Lscape Post Med Eur

Or Urban landscape Maritime?

Author elsslots
#62 | Posted: 6 Nov 2021 06:46 
National Steppe Biosphere Reserve "Askaniya Nowa" – See Zebra in Ukraine! Impossible to categorise! Zoo for fauna, forest park for Flora and open steppe for Diverse Ecosystem. Perhaps the latter is the most valuable?

It is proposed on criterion X only, so that would mean Fauna or Flora. I think they'd like to go for Fauna - the animals aren't only in the acclimatization zoo, but run around on the steppe as well.

Author Solivagant
#63 | Posted: 6 Nov 2021 06:51 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Historic Center of the Port City of Odessa - Urb Lscape Post Med Eur
Or Urban landscape Maritime?

Not particularly enamoured of this category which seems a bit out on a limb compared with others - we don't have other cities by location
But have no particular objection... The city exists because of the sea but apart from those steps and the promenade the rest of the city is typical Soviet...
Though I haven't been there since Soviet days!!

Author Jonas Bergmann
#64 | Posted: 6 Nov 2021 06:52 | Edited by: Jonas Bergmann 
Residence to Housing: If we do that, we have to move "Residences of the Royal House of Savoy" to the "Palaces" Category. And if the variety of the Works Frank Lloyd Wright and Le Corbusier can be met by "Housing" is also very questionable.

Drawing the line between Colonial and Latin American Urban Landscape is extremely difficult. All sites in the Latin American category have strong colonial parts, Sao Francisco is completely colonial. What to do?

Author elsslots
#65 | Posted: 6 Nov 2021 07:27 
Jonas Bergmann:
Drawing the line between Colonial and Latin American Urban Landscape is extremely difficult. All sites in the Latin American category have strong colonial parts, Sao Francisco is completely colonial. What to do?

I don't think it is that difficult: look at the OUV, look at the age when it was created (see our Connection "Built in xx century"), was this during or after the colonial period for that country? Often the OUV statement already includes the wording Spanish-colonial. Sao Francisco should have been Colonial.

The later "Latin American" however we should rethink, like the "Urban landscape Asian" it doesn't say much about what kind of urban landscape it is.

Author elsslots
#66 | Posted: 6 Nov 2021 07:29 
Jonas Bergmann:
Residence to Housing: If we do that, we have to move "Residences of the Royal House of Savoy" to the "Palaces" Category. And if the variety of the Works Frank Lloyd Wright and Le Corbusier can be met by "Housing" is also very questionable.

I meant all to Housing: Palaces, Residences and houses of the common people

Author elsslots
#67 | Posted: 6 Nov 2021 07:36 
Abu Dhabi Sabkha - This site is about Geology/Geomorphology and not about an ecosystem. IMO we don't have a suitable Category for it

We have used Eroded for similar ones

Author Astraftis
#68 | Posted: 6 Nov 2021 08:10 
Do we need a category for wetlands?

Good question, as they seem quite common. Until now, we have them mostly under Rivers and lakes. We could change that name to "Rivers, wetlands and lakes". I don't know whether there are "wetland only" WHS.

There surely at least are where the wetland aspect is the most important one! The first that comes to my mind, nomen omen, is the Pantanal in Paraguay. Also the Ahwar of southern Iraq. But just in these T-lists we see many attempts to promote marshlands and the like, there are many others. I think that it could easily warrant a category for itself, but also starting from the extension of an ezisting one might be OK.

Astraftis: ecco l'Italia!

It looks like Italy has changed most names of the TWHS from the Italian name to an English one. We still have the Italian ones, need to fix that.

Then sometimes they're not capable of giving a decent English equivalent like Lake D'Orta, which should be just Orta Lake, like Como lake...

Via Francigena in Italy - Continuing; Medieval Europe - Again, this is rather intangible

I'd go for Christian, that's what we have for the Compostela routes as well. Francigena in the proposed OUV is described solely as a pilgrimage route.

But this Christian part is totally abstract, and the core zones are simply the historical city centers along the way... the Francigena looks just like an excuse to string them together, the Christian aspect is not particularly highlighted, rather than it bein a "transalpine highway of the Middle-Ages", that's why I chose that category!

The Murge of Altamura - Karst landscapes and caves; Non-hominid fossils - Fossils of every kind! "murge" is plural of "murgia" (a dialectal word for rocky places of some kind)

The UNESCO website has this as a cultural nomination, we have it as mixed. The text feels like natural, with the attributed categories that you have given plus Human evolution (both human and non-human fossils have been found).

Pfff - The Italian TWHS are very tricky, the texts seem to ramble on, adding a Roman ruin here and there

Well, it's difficult not to find a Roman ruin anywhere! :-D Just added value, I say. :-P These proposals are also not that developed, they look like ideas in their draft stage. Anyway, I notice a general tendency for very diffuse proposals with many mixed aspects. Now I'm going on and see how common this is...

So, I'm taking:


Unfortunately, neither the Vatican nor San Marino have any T-list!

Author Astraftis
#69 | Posted: 6 Nov 2021 08:14 | Edited by: Astraftis 
The difference between Residence and Palace is blurry

It is. Though not all residences are the same, I could see some move to a combined Palace/Residence category (they're in fact upper class housing). But we have others in the Residence category which do not fit that easily, they are more normal houses (Rietveld, FLW, Decorated farmhouses). We could make a more disruptive move and call it all Housing?

Maybe choose which is the "popular" side of housing, then rename it "Living places" or similar and move everything upperclass to Palace (similarly to what Jonas said)

Author Solivagant
#70 | Posted: 6 Nov 2021 08:33 | Edited by: Solivagant 
We have used Eroded for similar ones

But it has nothing to do with "Erosion"!
Need to think of a better title relating to Geomorphological processes more generally??

Author Solivagant
#71 | Posted: 6 Nov 2021 09:04 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Most are in "Human Activity - Transport and Trade"
One is in "Structures - Civic and Public Works" ( Mehmed Paša Sokolović Bridge)

The former is being used for a range of "structures" - Railways, Canals, Aqueducts (but not all - Padre Tembleque is under Civic & Public) etc. The more I think about it the less I like the use of "Human Activity" for structures!!!
But ....for the moment, rather than spend time thinking these things through it seems better to continue generally with the current rules/conventions and see what we have got at the end???
Agreed??? (It might be easier to stop for a while and draw breath on a number of issues Els... You will be faced with making any later alterations to more sites!)

So - I am, pro tem, adding Bridges to Human Activity Transport & Trade

Author elsslots
#72 | Posted: 6 Nov 2021 10:00 
it seems better to continue genrally with the current rules/conventions and see what we have got at the end???

Yes I agree. If we decide to rename a category at the end, or merge or split it, I can easily do it then. It would help if we struggled through all countries first (and keep on reporting any specific findings).

Author elsslots
#73 | Posted: 6 Nov 2021 10:00 
I'll do the Benelux!

Author elsslots
#74 | Posted: 6 Nov 2021 10:25 
Hoge Kempen Rural - Industrial Transition Landscape - Mixed: Eroded + Cult landscape relict
Hôpital Notre-Dame à La Rose - Lessines - Residence ?? (Hospicio Cabanas we also have as Residence, they seem similar)
L'oeuvre architecturale d'Henry van de Velde - Residence
Le champ de bataille de Waterloo, la fin de l'épopée napoléonienne - Memorial/Monument
Le noyau historique ou la 'Cuve' de Gand, et les deux abbayes qui sont à son origine - Urban medieval Europe
Le Palais de Justice de Bruxelles – Civic and Public Works
Le palais de Princes Eveques de Liège - Palace
Le Panorama de la Bataille de Waterloo, exemple particulièrement significatif de « Phénomène de Panoramas » - Science and Education
Le plateau des Hautes-Fagnes - Relict CL
Le tronçon Bavay-Tongres de la chaussée romaine Boulogne-Cologne situe sur le territoire de la Région wallonne - Ancient Rome
Les citadelles mosanes - Military/Fortifications
Les passages de Bruxelles / Les Galeries Royales Saint-Hubert - Urban landscape post-medieval European
Leuven/Louvain, batiments universitaires, l'héritage de six siècles au sein du centre historique - Science and Education
Noyau historique d'Antwerpen -Anvers- de l'Escaut aux anciens remparts de vers 1250 - Urban Medieval Europe
Sites funéraires et mémoriels de la Première Guerre mondiale (Front Ouest) (Belgium) - Memorial/Monument
The Neanderthal fossil sites of Wallonia - Human Evolution

Bonaire Marine Park - Marine/Coastal
Eise Eisinga Planetarium – Science Education
Plantations in West Curacao – Relict CL


Author Solivagant
#75 | Posted: 6 Nov 2021 10:28 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Have gone through Turkey's T List of 84 sites (inc some duplicates!) It has raised a number of problems and thoughts in my mind and I will probably consider these and make suggestions before progressing further!! A particular problem with T List Categorisation (as against WHS) is the unformed aspect of many of the sites- many contain a bit of everything! Such range would no doubt be controlled during the preparation of a nomination!!

Aizanoi Antique City - Arch Site Roman (Q. As often occurs –it was originally Greek but most remains are Roman – npt clear which to choose)
Akdamar Church – Religious Christian
Alahan Monastery - Religious Christian
Alanya - Arch site Nr Eastern (covers many periods and has a few extant buildings as well as fortifications but is mainly an Arch site)
Anatolian Seljuks Madrasahs - Religious Islamic
Ancient Cities of Lycian Civilization - Arch site Classical (other) (Includes Greek/Roman but better to differentiate?)***
Ancient City of Anazarbos - Arch Site Roman
Ancient City of Kaunos - Arch site Classical (Other)
Ancient city of Kibyra - Arch site Roman
Ancient City of Korykos - Arch Site Nr East} I really don't know how to handle within our current list - Covers from Hittite through all to Byz & Armenian!
Ancient City of Stratonikeia - And another multi civilization site
Archaeological Site of Assos - Arch site Greek
Archaeological Site of Kültepe-Kanesh – Arch Site Nr Eastern (Assyrian.. post "Prehistoric")
Archaeological site of Laodikeia – Another Greco/Toman through to Byz
Archaeological Site of Perge - Arch Site Greek
Archaeological Site of Priene - Urban Planning (OUV Crit ii Representing the most well-preserved city-planning example from antiquity until now")
Archaeological Site of Sagalassos – Arch Site Roman
Archeological Site of Zeugma - Arch site Roman
Ayvalık Industrial Landscape - CL Continuing (CL isn't mentioned but contains Oil production on industrial scale and only some olive growing so propose treating like e.g Tequila. Is there a need for Human Act – Agric as well? Much less important than the Agave CL?)
Basilica Therma (Sarıkaya Roma Hamamı) – Arch site Roman
Çanakkale (Dardanelles) and Gelibolu (Gallipoli) Battles Zones – Memorials and Monuments
Early Perd etc.. Niksar, Capital of Danishmend Dyn- Urban Landscape ..... but which? "Arab/M East" or "Asian". It is mainly late Mediaeval)
Eflatun Pinar: The Hittite Spring Sanctuary – Arch Site Nr Eastern
Eshab-ı Kehf Kulliye (Islamic-Ottoman Social Complex) – Religious Islamic (covers non Islamic periods too – but title indicates priorities!)
Esrefoglu Mosque – Religious Islamic
Gordion – Arch Site Nr Eastern (Phrygian 9th C BC so pre Classical).
Güllük Dagi-Termessos National Park - (Mixed) Arch site Classical – other (Pisidian!) / Diverse Ecosystem (Canyons, flora, fauna Medit vegetation)
Haci Bayram Mosque & Area - Religious Islamic (have ignored an OUV from the rest!)
Haci Bektas Veli Complex - Religiuos Islamic (am counting "Alevism" as "Islamic")
Harran and Sanliurfa - Urban landscape Arab & M East
Hatay, St. Pierre Church - Religious Christian
Historic City of Harput - Urban landscape Arab & M East
Historic Guild Town of Mudurnu - Urban landscape Arab & M East
Historic Town of Beypazarı - Urban Landscape Arab & M East
Historic Town of Birgi - Urban Landscape Arab & M East
Historic Town of Kemaliye – Urban Landscape Arab & M East
Historical Monuments of Nigde - Religious Structure Islamic (The claimed OUV relates to Mosques, though there are other monuments – Bazaar, Churches etc)
Ishak Pasha Palace - Secular Structure Palace
Ismail Fakirullah Tomb & its Light Refraction Mechanism – Burial / Religious Structure Islamic
Ivriz Cultural Landscape – CL Relict / Arch Site Nr Eastern
Íznik – Urban Landscape Arab and M East
Karain Cave - Human Evolution
Karatepe-Aslantaş Archaeological Site - Arch Site Nr Eastern
Kekova - (Mixed) Arch site Classical other / Coastal marine
Kızılırmak Delta Wetland and Bird Sanctuary - River, lake & Wetlands
Konya - Urban landscape Arab & M Eastern
Koramaz Valley - Arch site Byzantine
Lake Tuz SEPA - River, Lake, Wetlands
Late Antique & Medieval Churches & Monasteries of Midyat & area – Religious Structure Christian
Mahmut Bey Mosque - Religious Structure Islamic 1
Mamure Castle - Military & Fortif
Mardin Cultural Landscape - CL Continuing (I think it is this rather than Relict!!)
Mausoleum and Sacred area of Hecatomnus - Burial
Medieval City of Beçin – Arch Site Nr Eastern (Wiki talks of Archaeological remains – so I am categorizing it as such rather than Urban. A major aspect is the fort but there is a lot else)
Mount Harşena and the Rock-tombs of the Pontic Kings – (Mixed) Burials / Mountains (Meniton is made of CL – but not followed up, could be "Arch site" but seems better to major on the tombs?)
Mountainous Phrygia - Arch Sites Nr Eastern
Nature Park of Ballıca Cave - Karst & Caves
Nuruosmaniye Complex – Religious Structure Islamic
Odunpazari Historical Urban Site – Urban Landscape Arab & M East

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