I find the two categories very confusing, could we combine them into 1?

We could do Urban Continuity here, as the town has a strong indigenous presence with pre-Columbian remains as well.

I'd say Caves. That's the most prominent natural feature.

Human evolution I'd say?

Changed it to CL Continuing, AB ev says "evolving living landscape"

Finland
The Architectural Works of Alvar Aalto - Civic & Public (14 buildings –Housing, Gov Offices, Hospital, Planetarium, University etc. Perhaps we really ought to have an equivalent to "Urban Planning" for series of buildings – or expand that to cover both? But how to avoid "all" architecture?)

The Ringed Seal Archipelagos of Lake Saimaa - Fauna

France
Aires volcaniques et forestières de la Martinique – Insular & Volcanic ("island is of volcanic origin...characterised by a diversity of topographical and climatic conditions in a relatively small area, resulting in a high biodiversity of flora and fauna.".... "The highest peak is the active volcano Mount Pelée.......most spectacular natural monument is the Rocher du Diamant, a volcanic neck that rises steeply from the sea.")

Ancienne chocolaterie Menier à Noisiel – Factories & Industry

Arsenal de Rochefort et fortifications de l'estuaire de la Charente - Milit & Fortif

Bouches de Bonifacio - Coastal & Maritime (High limestone cliffs....coastline......maritime area is characterized by an exceptionally high biodiversity of flora and fauna". Could be "Insular" but a bit Island a bit too big and this a bit too small in relation?)

Cathédrale de Saint-Denis – Religious Christian

Centre ancien de Sarlat – Urban Post Mediaeval (well-preserved medieval townscape dates back to the 13th to 16th centuries. The historic old town, built around the Cathedral Saint-Sacerdos, includes buildings from the Middle Ages, the Renaissance and the Baroque." Rather "late" Mediaeval at earliest!!??)

Chateau de Vaux-le-Vicomte - Residence (When is a "chateau" a "Palace" and when a "Residence"?? according to whether its owner/builder is "Royal"??)

Cité de Carcassonne et ses châteaux sentinelles de montagne (Ext) Milit & Fortif

Domaine de Fontainebleau château, jardins, parc et forêt (Ext) Palace (if this had been "on its own" it could have been "CL Clearly Def.... but as it is not then it is an extension of a "Palace"?)

Ensemble de grottes à concrétions du Sud de la France –Karst & cave ("18 caves/ groups in the Pyrenees, the Massif Central and the Alps......characterized by the presence of speleothems in a variety of morphologies and crystal forms, stalactites and stalagmites")

Hangar Y – ???? ("world's first airship hangar....built in 1879......using elements of an iron structure from a machine hall at the 1878 World's Fair in Paris. The airship 'La France' was built in" it.. Trade/Transport (what the airships were for)? Factories & Indust (one at least was made there)? Civic & Public (it was primarily an airship "park")?)

La Camargue - Wetlands

Le Charolais-Brionnais, paysage culturel de l'élevage bovin - CL Contin

Le chemin de fer de Cerdagne - Trade & Transport

Le rivage méditerranéen des Pyrénées (Mixed) – Coastal & Marine / CLContin ("Côte rocheuse escarpée, Caps Béar et de Creus, massif des Albères, c'est un paysage naturel de qualité exceptionnelle, qui possède également de grandes richesses en biodiversité, tant marine que terrestre,".... "cultural landscape at the S.E ridge of the Pyrenees where it meets the Mediterranean....comprises different landforms: mountains, alluvial plains, coastline and marine areas. The region is a melting pot of various cultural influences.")

Les Alpes de la Méditerranée ?????? (For Italy we said Mountain Marine & Coastal. For Monaco we put it aside. It is really "geological")

Les Iles Marquises – (Mixed) Insular / Arch Pacific ("Due to the great geographical isolation and its rugged topography....has developed a unique terrestrial and marine ecosystem. Many endemic species, flora and fauna... specific to the archipelago, sometimes to a single island, or even to a single peak".... "inhabitants developed a specific culture and artistic style. Most remarkable are the 'Tiki' stone sculptures, most of which can be found on the island of Hiva Oa").

Les Plages du Débarquement, Normandie – Memorial & Monuments

Les témoignages matériels de la construction de l'État des Pyrénées Andorre (F) - Urban landscape Medieval European (As per Andorra)

Les villes antiques de la Narbonnaise - Arch Roman ("remains of aqueducts and Roman roads in.....former Roman province of Narbonensis......(as well as Arles & Nimes) Glanum is the most important component of this serial proposal. The archaeological site of Glanum consists of the ruins of the Roman city centre")

Les villes bastionnées des Pays-Bas du nord-ouest de l'Europe – Milit & Fortif

Marais salants de Guérande (Mixed) - Wetland / ?????? ("swamp landscape on the Guérande peninsula near the mouth of the Loire in the Atlantic Ocean. The layout of the salt marshes as a mosaic of shallow basins connected by a system of canals dates back to the 9th century.", Trade & Transport or Manuf & Industry?)

Massif du Mont Blanc - Mountain

Metz Royale et Impériale, enjeux de pouvoir – Post Med European ("Royal Quarter.....which represents the Ancien Régime period......Imperial Quarter, the expansion of the city at the beginning of the 20th century during the rule of the German Empire").

Montagne Sainte-Victoire et sites cezaniens (Mixed) - ??????? ("Mais c'est surtout la beauté unique de ses paysages transcendés par l'œuvre de Paul Cézanne qui a rendu la montagne Sainte-Victoire célèbre à travers le monde....D'ailleurs, prés de la montagne, à Aix-en-Provence, les principaux lieux où Paul Cézanne vécut ont été sauvegardés. Ces principaux sites sont le Château du Jas de Bouffan, son atelier au centre ville, les carrières de Bibemus,le Château Noir, les bords de l'Arc..." So - beautiful Limestone country and Cezanne painted it and lived there. I just don't know how to identify both a Natural and cultural Categ.!)

Nîmes, l'Antiquité au présent - Urban Continuity

Office National d'Etudes et de Recherches Aérospatiales, Meudon - Science & Educ

Parc national de la Vanoise (Mixed) - Mountains/ CL Contin ("high mountains of the French Alps,".... "proposé aux titres de bien culturel, de bien naturel et de paysage culturel" But nothing in text to justify the Cultural aspect!!! Is said to be connected to the Parc du Grand Paradis in Italy – but as far as I can see Italy doesn't have that. Can only assume CL Contin?)

Parc national de Port-Cros - Coastal & Marine (10 kms from the French coast....island of Port-Cros, three small islets and a 600-metre-wide zone around the coast. It was the first national park in Europe to include both terrestrial and maritime zones.....mountainous and densely forested with a rocky coast to the south and a low sandy coast to the north.")

Parc national des Écrins(Mixed) – Mountain / CL Contin ("one of the highest massifs in the W Alps....2nd largest glacial area in France. The diversity of ecological conditions.....diversity of habitats. There are about 350 species of vertebrates, including Alpine ibex and Golden Eagle, and an unknown number of invertebrates".... "L'occupation traditionnelle du territoire compose de véritables paysages culturels représentatifs d'une culture montagnarde. Ils ont une valeur exceptionnelle tant du point de vue historique, esthétique et ethnologique. Sous l'effet des mutations actuelles, ces ensembles architecturaux deviennent vulnérables.")

Rade de Marseille – Urban Maritime ("sea front of the city of Marseille with the Old Port, some neighbourhoods of the historic old town behind it, and the Frioul Archipelago. Marseille was founded by Greeks around 600 BC and has been an important trading port since ancient times.")

Rouen : ensemble urbain cathédrale etc Urban Mediaeval Eur ("The historic quarters of the old town are an ensemble of narrow medieval streets with half-timbered houses. Three religious buildings stand out: the Gothic Rouen Cathedral, Saint-Ouen Abbey and Saint-Maclou Church in the Gothic Flamboyant style.")

Sites funéraires et mémoriels de la Première Guerre mondiale (Front Ouest) – Memorials & Monuments

Sites mégalithiques de Carnac _Prehistoric

Of course


But they (or at least the vast majority) are man made - "Rock cut Monasteries"
It is described in UNESCO as a "important bio-geographical features widely spread within the arid and semiarid landscape of the river Iori plateau.". I have looked up "Iori Plateau" - but not much help! Also this.

Congrats for finalizing. Very helpful to find some hidden gems in the TWHS.
What's up next? Discussing the categories?

Yes. Best to open a new topic for it as also will touch upon the categorization of the WHS. I think Solivagant kept a list of "issues"?

It's proposed as a CL, so I'd do CL continuing

I've gone for Mountain and Residence

Sorry -I had missed the "themes" section on the RHS of the UNESCO page - had spent my time reading the French text which makes no mention of CL!

Here's the comparison between WHS and TWHS categories in Excel and in pdf

There are a few TWHS for which we have left the category open for now (I will list them), but that will not significantly impact the findings.

Not really -just the sum total of "notes" I made as I went along. You will know which of these you resolved "satisfactorily" as you handled each of them.
There seem to be 2 sorts of issues
a. Specific TWHS which haven't been assignable at least reasonably - are there many? They would form a part of the input to the next issue ---
b. Categories which themselves have proven unsatisfactory or inadequate. The question is whether there is much value to be added by making changes. We have a footprint now of TWHS. The full statistics are awaited but it is showing some some aspects I would have expected - a general shape not too much different from the inscribed one.....still loads of Christian, Military and Burial sites to come.... a move towards CL Contin....vast numbers of forests...... Where will we get better insights from changing the category definitions? I would suspect that only around 5 -10% of assignments are problematic? We can now get a handle on the T List in smaller chunks than the full 1700+ even if each smaller chunk needs some "understanding" in relation to its contents.

We have a mental list of problem areas dont we. For a start
a. Insular v Marine/Coastal
b. Palace v Residence
c. Types of Forest
d. Active v Historic Volcanism
e. Post classical European Arch sites
f. Architectural v Urban planning (where sites are listed not for their "purpose" but for who designed them)
g. Geological phenomena not strictly covered by Volcanism, Karst and Erosion (and isn't Karst also "Erosion")
h. When to use Flora/Fauna instead of/as well as a landscape Categ
i. Our "structure by use" approach fails to identify any move towards modern architecture (it is worth asking ourselves I think what sort of aspects we would hope that "categorisation" would help us pull out and understand)
j. Mixing "Slavery" sites with "Trade & Transport". Aren't there enough of them to have separately - again we can find this by looking within the larger group... or have it pulled out for us by a new Category.
k ???

I suspect that many issues are irreconcilable within a framework of limited categories -we could solve 1 problem and just create another,,,, but I am not against addressing some of the issues to see if they take us anywhere..

will move this part of the discussion to a new topic, as it also will affect categorized WHS