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Adding Categories to TWHS

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Author Solivagant
#151 | Posted: 11 Nov 2021 16:49 
Why not Rock Art for Toro Muerto?

Agreed also.... I don't know why.. It is clear in the text done by the community even without reading the UNESCO text!

Author Astraftis
#152 | Posted: 11 Nov 2021 19:20 
Why not Rock Art for Toro Muerto?

Agreed also.... I don't know why.. It is clear in the text done by the community even without reading the UNESCO text!

Well, reviewing so many sites it is just natural to make some confusion at some point! Especially when we perhaps have different personal sensibilities and tend to focus on particular aspects, so we might be partial :-)

With regard to wine landscapes, I would tend towards Agriculture (as I have tried to do consistently) and even argue for a re-categorisation of existing wine- and similiaconnected sites that do not fall in this category

* * * * *

Now, it may be psosible that given Els's alphabetical and Solivagant's omegapsical progression, mine is kind of mucentrical (also, Mediterranean). So here is...

- Marshall Islands -

Likiep Village Historic District - Colonial - Of the pacific kind
Northern Marshall Islands Atolls - Insular; Fauna - More insular than this is difficult. And I will give preference to turtles over algae all the time...
Mili Atoll Nature Conservancy (and Nadrikdrik) - Flora; Insular - ... but coral is also nice! By the way, do we need a natural category "Underwater"? It is already under Marine? A moment: if corals aren't in fact plants (my blunder), then fauna would cover also the large populations of sharks, whales and so on. So, no Flora after all! The Great Barrier Reef is under Marine and coastal, however

- Micronesia (Federated states of) - together with Palau

Yapese Disk Money Regional Sites - Transport and trade - This is the contribution of Yap...

- Palau -

Yapease Quarry Sites - Mines - ... and this the contribution of Palau! But why two different sites? And the name is quite confusing, since Yap is in Micronesia
Imeong Conservation Area - Pacific; Diverse ecosystems -
Ouballang ra Ngebedech (Ngebedech Terraces) - Clearly defined - Because it is a kind of "terraforming" for both agricultural and cultural purposes
Tet el Bad (Stone Coffin) - Burial- Well, I would have chosen just "Object" if possible... Apart from that, weirdest entry for sure

- Papua New Guinea -

Huon Terraces - Stairway to the Past - "Non-hominid fossils" - Epic name. Again a "turbulent geological" site, maybe we need Earth evolution alongside Human one?
Kikori River Basin / Great Papuan Plateau - Diverse ecosystems; Continuing - Fro mthe description, it is the definitive natural site
Kokoda Track and Owen Stanley Ranges - Diverse ecosystems; Continuing -
Milne Bay Seascape (Pacific Jewels of Marine Biodiversity) - Insular; Fauna -
The Sublime Karsts of Papua New Guinea - Karst landscapes and caves - Another very flowery name
Trans-Fly Complex - Rivers and lakes; Continuing - Possible extension to Kakadu
Upper Sepik River Basin - Diverse ecosystems; Continuing - Yes, I have used these combinations multiple times. The basin encompasses much more than the river system, going "from 0 to 3800 m asl"

- Fiji -

Sigatoka Sand Dunes - Pacific - I would add Eroded, but it does not seem to be the point
Sovi Basin - Forest -
Yaduataba Crested Iguana Sanctuary - Fauna -

- Kiribati -

Nothing :-(

Other places are all already under someone else's sovereignity (as Tahiti).

* * * * *

This time I was overwhelmed by nature and biodiversity.

Author elsslots
#153 | Posted: 12 Nov 2021 00:40 
"agricultural, industrial and technological properties"

I can see the agricultural and industrial, but what are technological properties? The Four Lifts? Shustar? All bridges? Mining sites?

Author elsslots
#154 | Posted: 12 Nov 2021 00:56 | Edited by: elsslots 
Updated progress overview per country:
A: done
B: Ba - Be countries, Bosnia, Bulgaria done
C: Croatia done
E: Egypt done
F: Fiji done
G: Germany and Greece done
I : Italy done
L: Libya done
M: Marshall Islands, Mexico, Micronesia Mongolia, Morocco, Montenegro done
N: Netherlands and North Macedonia done
P: Palau, PNG, Poland, Portugal done
Q-Z: all done

Author elsslots
#155 | Posted: 12 Nov 2021 01:00 
I will take the remaining B countries (Bolivia, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Burundi)

Author Jakob
#156 | Posted: 12 Nov 2021 07:17 
New Zealand
Auckland Volcanic Fields - Volcanic and thermal & Arch. Pacific (Mixed site)
Kahurangi National Park, Farewell Spit and Canaan karst system - Wildlife habitat, Fauna & Marine and Coastal & Karst landscapes and caves
Kerikeri Basin historic precinct - Cultural Landscape, Relict & Pacific (clearly mentioned Maori archeological remains)
Kermadec Islands and Marine reserve - Marine and Coastal & Insular?
Napier Art Deco historic precinct - Urban planning
Waitangi Treaty Grounds - Memorials and Monuments
Waters and seabed of Fiordland (Te Moana O Atawhenua) - Marine and Coastal
Whakarua Moutere - Marine and Coastal

Author Solivagant
#157 | Posted: 12 Nov 2021 07:36 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Archaeological Site of Harappa – Arch Site South (East) Asian (We seem to be using "prehistoric" in its strict sense of pre writing rather than Yrs BP So – Harrapan sites with their script are not prehisotirc. Dholvira has been assigned to Arch Site South (East) Asian – mixing "South" and "East" bracketted together as an afterthought? "Whilst Far Eastern" is reserved for China, Korean and Japan. Whilst not liking it I follow this convention!)
Archaeological Site of Mehrgarh - Arch South (East) Asian
Archaeological Site of Ranigat - Arch Site South (East) Asian
Archaeological Site of Rehman Dheri – Arch Site south (East) Asian
Badshahi Mosque, Lahore – Religious Islamic
Baltit Fort – Military & Fortif
Central Karakorum National Park – Natural Mountain
Chaukhandi Tombs, Karachi - Burials ("Early" Islamic for the area. Have been there and didn't get any feel of them being significantly a religious site in the same way as later tombs further down the list – so have not assigned a "Religious" categ. Have looked at, similar but grander and longer lasting, inscribed Makli/Thatta – these should be Tombs also and not Arch site??)
Deosai National Park – Natural - Mountain (To echo Nanda Devi with which it is compared. Could be Fauna as "was designated specifically to protect this environment as the home of the endangered Brown Bear" or various other ecological e.g "on-going ecological and biological processes in the evolution and development of the high altitude wetlands")
Derawar and the Desert Forts of Cholistan- Military & Fort
Hingol Cultural Landscape – Religious Hindu/ CL Continuing ("ancient but living cultural landscape"...." Throughout the year, thousands of Hindus visit the Hinglaj Mata Mandar out of which more than 5,000 come in the month of April")
Hiran Minar and Tank, Sheikhupura - Park or Garden (Is a Park designed by/for Jahangir. Comparable with e.g Denmark's Parforce – but 1993 addition to T List predated CL aspect – and there is no mention).
Karez System Cultural Landscape – CLContin / Civic and Public Works (Pak version of a Qanat/Aflaj – Neither of which is inscribed as a CL.
Mansehra Rock Edicts – Civic and Public (Could choose between - Memorials/Monuments, Educational, Civic & Public, Arch Site....? Certainly not Rock art. Similar to larger Bisotun, which has been assigned "arch site" but restricted solely to the carvings aspect. My choice is based on "purpose" of the edict carving – dissemination of the law, or its current status – an Arch Site??)

Nagarparkar Cultural Landscape – CL Relict (the 2nd CL added by Pakistan in 2016 T List additions! "The Nagarparkar Cultural Landscape Relict ("bears a unique testimony to the lost civilization and cultural traditions of the Jain maritime mercantile system" So – Relict, unlike the "continuing" Hindu CL above? Not categorising it as "Religious" would relieve us of the need to categorise "Jainism" as a religion!!! Indigenous? A Sect/development of Hinduism.....?)
Port of Banbhore - Arch Site South (East) Asian
Rani Kot Fort, Dadu – Milit & Fortif
Shah Jahan Mosque, Thatta – Milit & Fortif
Shahbazgarhi Rock Edicts – Civic & Public (as per above)
The Salt Range and Khewra Salt Mine (Mixed) - Mining / Palaeontology Non Hominid ("The Salt Range is an exceptional example of features of earth science that provide an accessible and comprehensive stratigraphy of "deep time" of the planet illuminated with dramatic assemblages of fossils from all periods." There seems to be a hint of "CL" in the description but suggest we ignore it – "an outstanding example of a traditional land-use which is representative of human interaction with the environment".)
Tomb of Bibi Jawindi, Baha'al-Halim and Ustead and the Tomb and Mosque of Jalaluddin Bukhari – Burial / Religious Islamic (certainly "religious" with the Mosque)
Tomb of Hazrat Rukn-e-Alam, Multan – Burial / Religious Islamic ("The shrine attracts over 100,000 pilgrims to the annual urs festival that commemorates his death" – justifying Religious?)
Tomb of Shah Rukn-e-Alam – Burial / Religious Islamic (a duplicate of the above!!)
Tombs of Jahangir, Asif Khan and Akbari – Burial (But is it also Religious Islamic? I don't remember it significantly as such. Need to treat the same as Taj Mahal and Hamayun for consistency, But I am still not totally happy with our handling of this issue!)
Wazir Khans Mosque, Lahore – Religious Islamic
Ziarat Juniper Forest – Natural Flora ("believed to be the world's second largest population of juniper trees (Juniperus polycarpos). Let's give those Juniper their due importance!)

Ancient Jericho/ Tell es-Sultan - Arch site Nr Eastern
Anthedon Harbour Arch Site Nr Eastern (Same old problem! Which era? "archaeological site.... inhabited from the Mycenaean to the Byzantine period.... heyday during the Hellenistic period when it became an independent city. The archaeological remains include a Roman temple, villas, parts of the city walls and port structures.")
Baptism Site "Eshria'a" (Al-Maghtas) Religious Christian (same as Jordan's)
El-Bariyah: wilderness with monasteries – Religious Christian
Hisham's Palace/ Khirbet al- Mafjar Arch Site Nr Eastern ("remains of an Umayyad desert castle. The complex held a palace, a thermal bath, mosque and monumental fountain. It has mosaic floors". So – Palace, Fortif ... or both?? Avoid issue by categ as "Arch site"?)
Mount Gerizim and the Samaritans – Religious Indigenous ("religious centre of the ethno-religious group of Samaritans. The Samaritans believe that on Mount Gerizim, according to biblical tradition, Abraham wanted to sacrifice his son Isaac." Another e/g of problems categorizing Religions!)
Old Town of Nablus and its environs - Arch Site Nr Eastern (Same old problem! Which era? "the sequence Canaanite-Roman-Ottoman has created a special development of an urban architectural complex... The old town is a type of a group of buildings and urban fabric which represent the Roman city and is still in part visible".)
Qumran: Caves and Monastery of the Dead Sea Scrolls – Arch Site Nr Eastern
Sebastia – Arch Site Ancient Rome ("includes remains from the Israelite, Hellenistic, Roman and Byzantine periods." – but is primarily Roman.)
Tell Umm Amer - Arch Site Nr Eastern ("archaeological site....the remains of the Monastery of Saint Hilarion. In the Byzantine period.....was one of the largest monastic complexes in the Levant".... "span more than 4C, from the Late Roman to the Umayyad period,...The site was abandoned after a seventh-century earthquake". Do we assign "religious" to sites no longer used for Religion even if that was their prime function? Would it matter which religion if we did – extant or not? On that basis Stonehenge could be cited as "religious")
Throne Villages – Urban L'scape Arab & M East ("reflect the social and political role-played by the local political leadership of sheiks at that period; these "county seats of the local leaders" were remarkable for their architectural style".)
Umm Al-Rihan forest - Natural forest ("one of the last Mediterranean forests in the Middle East and an important resting place and nesting site for breeding and migratory birds". Not strong enough for Natural Fauna as well?)
Wadi Gaza Coastal Wetlands - Natural Wetlands ("one of most important coastal wetlands ecosystems in the E Med... rich biodiversity of flora and fauna....resting place for migratory birds. The most common endemic bird is the Palestinian sunbird. Not significantlly "coastal" ...a lengthy twisting wadi debouching into the Med at the end)
Wadi Natuf and Shuqba Cave - Arch Site Prehistoric ("In the Shuqba Cave......evidence of a Late Stone Age culture has been found, named after the wadi as the "Natufian Culture"....pre-agricultural community based on hunting and intensive food gathering.")

Archaeological Site and Historic Centre of Panamá City - Urban L'scpe colonial (seems to trump "Arch Site!)
Ruta Colonial Transístmica de Panamá - Transport & Trade (5 sites along the Spanish colonial heritage route across Central America...proposed as a significant boundary modification for "Arch Site of Panamá Viejo etc and also includes the WHS "Portobelo/San Lorenzo". Not really clear if it will replace them or not – but it needs a more expansive Catgegory in any case)

Author Solivagant
#158 | Posted: 12 Nov 2021 07:38 
Mbaracayú Forest Nature Reserve (Mixed) - Natural Forest / Human Activity Agriculture ("humid subtropical forest, part of the Interior Atlantic Forest.....deep valleys and waterfalls. Some......forests are permanently flooded." Flooding aspect not eoough for "wetland"? Re Cultural aspect - "an area with small landholdings and numerous cattle ranching establishments in the Mbaracaya Range (Karapa). In the east there are various properties, ranches and two indigenous communities of different ethnic partialities, and in the south and east, there are farms of varying sizes." )
Paraguayan Pantanal - Natural Wetlands
Parque Nacional Ybyturuzu – Natural Mountain ("Mountain range .. has highest peak and highest waterfall in the country. There are also shelters with cave paintings". Shelters/Paintings not pursued in UNESCO text - Natural only)
Parque National Tinfunke – Diverse Ecosystems ("humid Chaco ecosystem....important fauna refuge for jaguar, tapir and maned wolf....irrigated by the Pilcomayo river.....also a RAMSAR site, important for aquatic birds". Humid Chaco is tropical grasslands, savannas, and shrublands". We don't really have a good Category for it? Natural but also mentioned and not pursued - "asi como a los sitios historicos de la Guerra del Chaco (1932-1935) entre Paraguay y Bolivia."!!).
Railway Complex and English Village of Sapucai - Factories & Industry (??? "19th C station where steam locos were repaired and constructed...still in use. The railway technology also stimulated ... the area. The houses of the English Village were built for British railway engineers". Presented as a "Technological ensemble" different from whole railways already inscribed. I think we need to look at our "technology" related categories)
Sistema Ferrocarril Pte. Carlos Antonio Lopez – Transport & Trade (Paraguay's Nationalised railway complete including Sapucai above. Currently claims to be "last steam railway in the world that has been in regular operation since 1861". Pro tem treat as per other complete railways?)

I will take Nigeria, Norway & Oman unless already claimed

Author Jakob
#159 | Posted: 12 Nov 2021 08:26 
Baltic Klint- Marine and Coastal
Kuressaare Fortress - Military and Fortifications
Wooded meadows - not sure here, I would go for Cultural Landscape Associative and due to being mixed site Forests?

Grobiņa archaeological ensemble - Viking
Kuldīga (Goldingen) - Urban landscape, Post-medieval European
Meanders of the Upper Daugava - Rivers, Wetlands and Lakes
Rundāle Palace Ensemble with a Garden and Forest Park - Palace

Kaunas 1919-1939: The Capital Inspired by the Modern Movement - Urban Planning
Trakai Historical National Park - Military and Fortifications

Author Jonas Bergmann
#160 | Posted: 12 Nov 2021 10:36 
Archaeological Site of Mehrgarh - Arch South (East) Asian

Mainly Prehistoric, ranging from the 7th to the 3rd millenium. Indus Culture only at the very end.

Author Solivagant
#161 | Posted: 12 Nov 2021 11:08 
Jonas Bergmann:
Mainly Prehistoric, ranging from the 7th to the 3rd millenium. Indus Culture only at the very end.

Yes,... Better to differentiate between the sites, if we can logically do so

Author Solivagant
#162 | Posted: 12 Nov 2021 14:36 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Baltic Klint- Marine and Coastal

Baltic Klint is about the Geology and Stratigraphy of the Klint - not its Marine/Coastal location or anything about the ecosystem of that location.
But I sympathise with Jakob as we don't have a good set of "geological" categories and the UNESCO text is opaque! But note the section "Submitted by: TTU Institute of Geology" - this gives a hint as to the nature of the site.
A better source of information is the IUCN evaluation carried out when it was nominated in 2006. For interest the evaluation is in this document starting page 55.
It was nominated solely on Natural Criterion i (now viii) - "Earth History and Geological Features" viz "Fossiliferous beds"..."Cambrian-Middle Ordovician succession" etc etc - there was nothing about today's coast or seas or ecology or living creatures!! IUCN wasn't impressed and rejected it - but the description in situ doesn't seem to have been adjusted to change its scope from continuing to be entirely a Geological site!

Author elsslots
#163 | Posted: 13 Nov 2021 00:48 
Shah Jahan Mosque, Thatta – Milit & Fortif

Should be Religious Islamic, I presume?

Author elsslots
#164 | Posted: 13 Nov 2021 01:03 
Old Town of Nablus and its environs - Arch Site Nr Eastern (Same old problem! Which era? "the sequence Canaanite-Roman-Ottoman has created a special development of an urban architectural complex... The old town is a type of a group of buildings and urban fabric which represent the Roman city and is still in part visible".)

I am thinking more into the direction of an Urban landscape - Arab/Middle East, I think with "Old Town of Nablus" they're hinting to the Old City quarters, which are mostly Ottoman with a few remains from earlier periods.

Author Solivagant
#165 | Posted: 13 Nov 2021 01:15 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Shah Jahan Mosque, Thatta – Milit & Fortif

Should be Religious Islamic, I presume

Yes of course... That isthe second time something like that has happened... Whether it is me getting my "rows" Wrong when cutting and pasting?!! Or just going too fast...

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