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Qhapaq Nan

 
 
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Author elsslots
Admin
#16 | Posted: 6 Aug 2014 12:31 
And what about Ollantaytambo?
I had researched it, and think I saw a map where the archeological site was pointed out (with a green dot) as being included. I cannot find it anymore however.

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#17 | Posted: 6 Aug 2014 13:06 | Edited by: Solivagant 
elsslots:
I had researched it, and think I saw a map where the archeological site was pointed out (with a green dot) as being included. I cannot find it anymore however.

Section - PE-OL-16/CS-2011
Map with green square on page 2212 (and others)

By the way - I don't know if you ever bothered to read my review of ChanChan. I put quite a lot of effort into tracing the persons behind the names given to the "Palaces" (prior to the recent change which re-named them all with "Mochica" titles). One of the "Palaces" not open to the public is "Squier/Fochic An/House of the North . Ephraim George Squier (1821 – 88). American Archaeologist and newspaper editor. "
I notice that quite a lot of the drawings used in the Qapac Nan nomination file are creditted to said Squier! Inlcuding for instance the "double kancha" at Ollantayambo.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._G._Squier

We may even have a "Connection" here - a bit more Googling required.

Author Assif
Partaker
#18 | Posted: 9 Aug 2014 17:54 | Edited by: Assif 
It is clear both Ingapirca (Ecuador) and Pachacamac (Peru) are still on the T-list while being part of the nominated Qhapaq Nan. Since the maps on the nomination file crash my computer I was wondering whether someone could check out whether the same is true of the following T sites:

Chinchorro, Pedro de Atacama, Cerro el Pomo (Chile)
Incallajta (Bolivia)
Calchaqui (Argentina)
Cajamarca (Peru)

Same questions regarding the following WHS:

Chan Chan, Nazca (Peru)
Samaipata (Bolivia)

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#19 | Posted: 10 Aug 2014 03:34 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Assif:
wondering whether someone could check out whether the same is true of the following T sites:

To start with just one of these. Cajamarca is NOT included in Qapac Nan.
The furthest north section in Peru ( "Sección Escalerilla/Casa Blanca-Cerro Huaylillas /Cushuro (PE-HH-59/CS-2011) ") starts well SE of Cajamarca.
The same therefore also applies to Chan Chan - that far north NO coastal road is inscribed
Also, using this "quick logic" method, Nazca is also of no relevance to the Qapac Nan nomination since the ONLY coastal section in Peru is PE-XP-40/S-2011 in the form of a side road down to Pachacamac.

I have also been following up on the assignment of Pizarro as a "Connection" for Qapac Nan. Now there can surely be NO question but that he did see the Qapac Nan - but where?? Els has chosen a quote from the Nom File as follows "Through San Marcos and Yamobamba one arrives at the town of Baños, where the Inca Atahualpa was when Francisco Pizarro arrived with his soldiers in November 1532 and from there it is a short distance to Cajamarca, the city where both met in an unequal battle". But this is just one of many references to Pizarro in the Nom File and doesn't relate specifically to a nominated location!!
I found the quote in the file on page 773 of the PDF as part of the Nom File titled "2.b.1 General Historic overview" which runs from pages 685 - 828. This seems to cover every bit of the area including roads which may or may not a part of the Qapac Nan and many of which are certainly NOT inscribed! It is followed by another chapter from pages 829-936 titled "History of the Qapac Nan" which seems to go over much the same ground!!

As stated above this quote can't be relevant to any section of the inscribed sections of the Qapac Nan which might be associated with Pizarro.

I think that with the Qapac Nan we are going to have to be very careful to associate connections with specific nominated sections including Ref Numbers -even if the maps themselves are very difficult to follow - assuming your computer will load them and you zoom in close enough to read them then - even if a place IS shown on a map it and highlighted with a circle/square etc it may still not actually be an inscribed part marked by a different coloured icon

PS. The questions of Samiapata and Incallajta can also be quickly resolved - the inscribed Qapac Nan only contains 4 sections in Bolivia. All of these are on the Altiplano route between Desaguadero and La Paz and the most southerly finishes just short of El Alto above La Paz. Samaipata well to the ESE in Santa Cruz plays no part in any of them. Similarly with Incallajta which is situated on the way to Samaipata also in Santa Cruz province

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#20 | Posted: 10 Aug 2014 04:59 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Assif:
was wondering whether someone could check out whether the same is true of the following T sites: ...........Calchaqui (Argentina)


I conclude that the T List site of Calchaqui IS inscribed in part within the Qapac Nan.

Of course the T List site is not yet fully defined but the T List description on the UNESCO Web sites includes this "The Valle Calchaqui was the scenery for the expansion of the Tiahuanaco Culture (650 to 850 AD.) and the spread of the lnka State by the middle XV century (Puerta de la Paya, Chinchilao and Potrero de Payogasta sites, and several investigated and described parts of the Inka Trail)."

The site of Potrero de Payogasta is specifically included amd described within the Qapac Nan as "Associated Archaeological Site: Potrero de Payogasta Code: AR-ACHC-03/CS-2011"
See page 168 of the Nom File PDF for a description and page 1449 for the detailed map of Potrero de Payogosta.
I would presume that any inscription of the Calchaqui vallyey would also include the other Qapac Nan sites included in this section but only Potrero gets a specific mention in the T List description.

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#21 | Posted: 10 Aug 2014 05:44 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Assif:
was wondering whether someone could check out whether the same is true of the following T sites:
Chinchorro, Pedro de Atacama, Cerro el Pomo (Chile)


Fianlly -the 3 Chilean T List sites
a. Chinchorro.
I don't think the Chinchorro sites are included in the Qapac Nan. We don't of course have a detailed definition of the area which this site would cover if insccribed but the Chinchorro culture was primarily situated on the coast - The UNESCO Web site T List entry states "The best testimonies of this development are found at the mouth of the Camarones River. The Chinchorro groups kept on hunting in nearby places and exploiting its resources, but since their main nourishment came from the sea, they settled at the coast, " None of the Chilean Qapac Nan sites are anywhere near the coast though the Camarones river in the mountains is mentioned
b. Cerro el Plomo
Is mentioned in the Qapac Nan Nom file but I do not think that el Plomo is among the selected sites. The only references to it are general with no specific reference number. PDF Page 953 is perhaps the most informative, listing the selected sections after a general paragraph listing the main "stations" along the road in Chile. As far as I can see none of the selected sections include el Plomo which is a long way south in Chile and situated in the high Andes east of Santiago de Chile. The furthest south inscribed area of the Qapac Nan in Chile is the Finca de Chañaral Site (CH-PF-34/CS-2010). This is described (page 323) as being "Some 16 km north-east of the town of Inca de Oro". This town is in the Atacama province still way north of El Plomo! (Nb Only the Argentine Qapac Nan sites go as far south as El Plomo on the other side of the Andes around Punete del Inca at AR-PIN-20/CS-2011)
c. Pedro de Atacama
Again this T List site hasn't yet been fully defined but the UNESCO Web site description states "The Inca influx improved metallurgy among the Atacama people, and also architecture. From this epoch are defensive construction like the Pukara de Quitor, and the village of Catarpe, administrative center built in stone and mud, from which the taxation on behalf of the empire was organized." This site of Catarpe is definitely included within the Qapac Nan inscription as Section CH-CN-12/CS-2009. Its description is on PDF page 881 and its map is on pages 1618 -1620. As with Calchaqui above any Pedro de Atacama inscription might well include other elements of the Qapac Nan in the area.

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#22 | Posted: 15 Aug 2019 09:48 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Can our experts confirm some locations by pictures?

Qhapaq Ñan, Andean Road System
(Inca Gaka - Qollotayoc) *Final 9 photos in the album

I hiked from Tambomachay and Puka Pukara to (I believe) Chukimarka, Templo de la Luna, Q'enco, and ultimately ending at Saqsaywaman. The issue is I have rather limited pictures from this hike February 9th, 2009! Based on the photos, I get a bit confused about the pictures related to Chukimarka, Templo de la Luna, Q'enco. What is inscribed and what is not? The hike was almost entirely in a wild highland (rocky) landscape that was linked by small or large ruins along the way.

Author clyde
Partaker
#23 | Posted: 16 Aug 2019 12:58 | Edited by: clyde 
winterkjm

All of the last 9 photos seem to be from Chukimarka panoramic viewpoints. You can easily compare most to the photos and info from this random site: https://elviento365.com/ct/internacional/6644/

As to what exactly is inscribed, the 542MB nomination dossier (pg 16 of 2765) states that from the section named Inca Gaka/Chaka - Qollotayoc (PE-OL-17/C-2011) only what remains from the Andean road is inscribed, precisely 0.35ha or 1.13km of it (3 metres wide), but the buffer zone is way larger than that and likely to include Chukimarka and Q'enco. although they are not specifically mentioned in the dossier. Moreover, the coordinates given in the UNESCO maps are of no help as they lead you only to a water stream near Ollantaytambo valley.

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