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2018 WHC Livestream

 
 
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Author elsslots
Admin
#391 | Posted: 1 Jul 2018 10:37 
Chiribiquete NP now. Will be positive, sounds like an interesting site difficult to visit

Author elsslots
Admin
#392 | Posted: 1 Jul 2018 10:45 
Inscribed

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#393 | Posted: 1 Jul 2018 10:46 | Edited by: Solivagant 
"Maloca of the Jaguar" will have to be another "Flowery sub-title" connection.
At its simplest "Maloca" means a traditional House/long house but it apparently also has more poetic meanings. So translation copied from the Web
"Beyond this general sense as to a specific traditional organization form, the term (which may well have several replacements) also serves to refer to sacred things considered residences of the owners in any order whatsoever (as plants and animals considered as "People") that is to say, not only certain clearings of the jungle, peculiarities of the landscape, mythical scenes, hills or sheets, but also to a type of housing whose symbolism entails for the Amazonian traditions a set of correspondences and traditional denominations that are essentially unified to express a synthesis of the universe. Thus, it can be, at the same time, the image of a divine archetype, a figure of the center of the world, the universal matrix, the womb of mother earth, the house of the sun and the moon or the receptacle of the celestial ray. The narrated legends and myths of the most diverse populations coincide in their non-human origin when they express that the precise methods of their construction have been taught by "the gods" to the first men in order not to forget their primordial origin"

Author pikkle
Partaker
#394 | Posted: 1 Jul 2018 10:54 
Naumburg is anything but a "third-rate cathedral." I understand the argument for over-saturation, however. And it seems like the whole process is broken at this point.

Author elsslots
Admin
#395 | Posted: 1 Jul 2018 11:04 
Now Tehuacán-Cuicatlán Valley: IUCN says Inscription, ICOMOS deferral. Can the latter be overturned to inscribe it as a mixed site?

Author pikkle
Partaker
#396 | Posted: 1 Jul 2018 11:05 
elsslots:
Now Tehuacán-Cuicatlán Valley: IUCN says Inscription, ICOMOS deferral. Can the latter be overturned to inscribe it as a mixed site?

Interesting to see how that plays out!

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#397 | Posted: 1 Jul 2018 11:05 
pikkle:
Naumburg is anything but a "third-rate cathedral." I understand the argument for over-saturation, however. And it seems like the whole process is broken at this point.

Agreeing that it's not 3rd rate. It's a worthwhile German historic monument and would have been inscribed if the DDR (former Eastern Germany) had submitted it prior to unification.

Key problem I see is that the expert judgements from ICOMOS carry no weight at all.

Author jeanbon
Partaker
#398 | Posted: 1 Jul 2018 11:06 
And a second site for germany....

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#399 | Posted: 1 Jul 2018 11:10 
@pikkle, :) I will admit to a bit of hyperbole there. And I'm sure if I visit it would be a very worthwhile trip. There is a reason Germany is home to my highest WHS visited count.

But within 200km of my home in the south of England I can think of 15 cathedrals that seem to be of similar prominence. I don't think the world heritage list be improved by inscribing all of them, even if my count would be.

Author elsslots
Admin
#400 | Posted: 1 Jul 2018 11:11 
Ah. Cliffhanger again. Session adjourned. Will still be some discussion on the appropriate cultural criterion for Tehuacán-Cuicatlán Valley, but eventually it will be inscribed as a mixed site.

Author elsslots
Admin
#401 | Posted: 1 Jul 2018 11:12 
So still on the programme tomorrow:
Tehuacan
Barberton
Fanjingshan
Arasbaran
Bikin river extension
Chaine de Puy
Rosea Montana

Author jeanbon
Partaker
#402 | Posted: 1 Jul 2018 11:12 
thks els

Author pikkle
Partaker
#403 | Posted: 1 Jul 2018 11:14 
The ignoring of the ABs/formation of SP cabals/eliminating the competition (perhaps reason for Spain's opposition to Nimes and Prosecco, despite similar and even lesser sites on their own T-List - I'm thinking of Priorat, La Rioja, their Roman wine-presses that are tangentially attached to some shipwrecks) is why State Parties need to be curbed. Perhaps State Parties could submit dossiers to a fixed or rotating, independent, authoritative committee that would then choose the most worthy sites which could then be decided in committee or by vote. Leave the SPs as actors on the submission end, but they are not the experts - even when I often disagree with ICOMOS (IUCN almost never), I'd prefer to have a semi-objective group as opposed to wholly self-interested blocs in the form of SPs and their alliances.

Author Zoe
Partaker
#404 | Posted: 1 Jul 2018 11:30 
I think that train is gone. There are indeed places on the list that should be delisted in favor of something that wasn't submitted before but that isn't going to happen. A place in Portugal had "the ultimate in gothic structure" as a OUV criteria and it might be impressive but isn't the "ultimate", it wasn't even completed. Such a research is going to take a long time and costs money.

Isn't ICOMOS paid by the state parties to the evaluations? Aside from the pride of having more inscriptions at stake, all the work put into this again for another try the year after is counterproductive for them. I think the only state party that actually withdraws something as they see issues by themselves is Canada which comes after ICOMOS has given them two thumbs up.

Maybe one day in the future the state parties will actually really work together and combine efforts. The mines across the world are often very similar. I think only the Mercury mine has a multi-nation approach (that isn't next to each other like Erzgebirge), with Peru and Mexico eventually dropping out.

However, if there is even a need to mention that "Track Changes" are good for, well, tracking document changes, then I am unsure they can approach something more complex at this point ;)

Author pikkle
Partaker
#405 | Posted: 1 Jul 2018 11:31 | Edited by: pikkle 
nfmungard:
Key problem I see is that the expert judgements from ICOMOS carry no weight at all.

I totally agree and even though I am happy to see Naumburg on the list - I didn't want it to happen like this. It almost sours it for me. I have a lot of fondness for Thuringia and the (former DDR) Saxon states.

meltwaterfalls:
@pikkle, :) I will admit to a bit of hyperbole there. And I'm sure if I visit it would be a very worthwhile trip. There is a reason Germany is home to my highest WHS visited count.

But within 200km of my home in the south of England I can think of 15 cathedrals that seem to be of similar prominence. I don't think the world heritage list be improved by inscribing all of them, even if my count would be.

I agree that York, Lincoln, Wells, Gloucester, Salisbury, Exeter, Norwich, Winchester & St. David's (Wales obv) are all at least of the same prominence (if not greater, although very different as English cathedral building took a very different architectural path aside from maybe Canterbury and some of the Norman-era (Norwich). Chichester, Worcester, Lichfield, Hereford, Southwell, Carlisle are also great cathedrals, but the others are the best un-listed in England. That isn't counting what are technically parish churches and former abbeys like Beverly, Selby, Boston, Tewkesbury Abbey, etc. The UK doesn't seem interested in putting forward cathedrals at this time, however. I can't blame them after the ugliness that has gone down with ICOMOS and the amount of politicking involved.

One interesting architectural footnote - I was recently in Braunschweig and part of their "cathedral" looks a bit Perpendicular and they actually use the term for this side-aisle of the church. I rarely see the English terms (Early English/Decorated/Perpendicular) used in literature not about the architecture of England.

Edit: that is not to say I want to see all of those cathedrals inscribed, but I think they are worthy - especially those like York, Wells, and Salisbury which have such fantastic cathedral close or in the case of York, entire old towns. I find these sites less redundant than viticulture - especially when we can't get other types of agriculture except coffee plantations listed?

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