World Heritage Site

for World Heritage Travellers



Forum: Start | Profile | Search |         Website: Start | The List | Community |
WHC Sessions www.worldheritagesite.org Forum / WHC Sessions /  
 

2014 WHC

 
 
Page  Page 11 of 13:  « Previous  1  ...  10  11  12  13  Next »

Author elsslots
Admin
#151 | Posted: 2 May 2014 13:37 
winterkjm:
That is ALOT of Deferrals!

Having now read most of them, what also stands out is the severity of these Deferrals. I guess the AB's have decided to toughen up a bit, to prevent scenes at the WHC that almost every site is allowed in after a plea from a befriended country. Most of the time the Deferrals end with "ICOMOS considers that any revised nomination would
need to be considered by an expert mission to the site" - so a decision would have to be postponed for at last a year.

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#152 | Posted: 3 May 2014 04:31 | Edited by: winterkjm 
The Peruvian segments of the Qhapaq Ñan, consist of 8 main sections, which are subdivided into 114 subsections, which will hence not be listed here. The eight main sections are composed of Plaza Inca Hanan – Hauk'aypata, Cusco – Desaguadero, Ollantaytambo – Lares-Valle Lacco, Vitkus – Choquequirao, Quewe – Winchiri, Xauxa – Pachacamac, Huánuco Pampa – Haumachuco, and Aypate – Las Pircas. The segments are presented in 140 component sites in 114 inventoried sections. These also include 85 associated archaeological sites. The length of the Peruvian components amounts to 720.28 kilometres and the overall territory comprised in the property boundaries is 11,406.95 hectares. These are surrounded by buffer zones of in total 663,069.68 hectares.)

I do believe I visited (3/8) of these main sections. Does anyone have any clarifications of what exact sites are included in the Peru components? No UNESCO documents explicitly identify each site (from what I understand).

Author elsslots
Admin
#153 | Posted: 3 May 2014 05:05 | Edited by: elsslots 
winterkjm:
Does anyone have any clarifications of what exact sites are included in the Peru components?

I have also been looking into this. Plaza Hauk'aypata is nowadays the Plaza de Armas in Cusco. An easy double hit. A stretch of road ends at Pachacamac 'al interior del santuario arqueológico'.

This is a helpful website I guess:
http://www.qhapaqnan.gob.pe/wordpress/?page_id=582

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#154 | Posted: 3 May 2014 12:47 | Edited by: Solivagant 
elsslots:
Does anyone have any clarifications of what exact sites are included in the Peru components?


I still haven't been able to find a copy of the nomination file anywhere on the Web - but this might be of interest!!

It sure is a hard life being an ICOMOS evaluator!!! The Peruvians seem to have rolled out the red carpet for them. Included within the movie is a full list of the Peruvian elements of the nomination
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_IkxPrPjfw

By the way - I couldn't work out for certain from the AB evaluation if Tiwanaku in Bolivia is included? Any views?

Author elsslots
Admin
#155 | Posted: 3 May 2014 13:00 
Solivagant:
if Tiwanako in Bolivia is included

Tiwanaku is mentioned several times in the ICOMOS evaluation. One of the attached photos shows a nondescript road supposedly near Tiwanaku.

I think that here as well as in Peru it's not clear if they "only" included the remains of the roads, or also the larger archeological sites which may already be WHS in their own right.

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#156 | Posted: 3 May 2014 13:32 | Edited by: Solivagant 
elsslots:
One of the attached photos shows a nondescript road supposedly near Tiwanaku.


Yes - part of the road near Tiwanaku is certainly inscribed and really had to be if the section running alongside Lake Titicaca was to be included BUT Tiwanaku was, as I understand it, of NO significance whatsoever to the Inca. Wiki states
"Tiwanaku disappeared around AD 1000. The land was not inhabited again for many years"
and
"In AD 1445 Pachacuti Inca Yupanqui (the ninth Inca) began conquest of the Titicaca regions. He incorporated and developed what was left from the Tiwanaku patterns of culture, and the Inca officials were superimposed upon the existing local officials. Quechua was made the official language and sun worship the official religion. So, the last traces of the Tiwanaku civilization were integrated or abandoned."

Thre would seem to be no reason whatsoever to include the actual remains of Tiwanaku in the Qhapaq Nan, UNLESS the Inca made some use of the site for its own purpose. And I have so far seen no indication that it did -though that wouldn't necessarily prevent the site getting included! Wiki again states of Tiwanaku "The site was first recorded in written history by Spanish conquistador Pedro Cieza de León. He came upon the remains of Tiwanaku in 1549 while searching for the Inca capital Qullasuyu" which certainly doesn't indicate an active site in Inca times.

Author elsslots
Admin
#157 | Posted: 3 May 2014 13:38 
Do you think Machu Picchu will be inscribed again?

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#158 | Posted: 3 May 2014 17:00 | Edited by: Solivagant 
elsslots:
Do you think Machu Picchu will be inscribed again?


No - the only section around the Sacred Valley is specifically described as "Ollantaytambo - Lares-valle". This apparently is nowadays the main "alternative" trek to the Inca trail in the area - it doesn't actually go to Macchu Picchu although the tours include it by train but it would seem that it might provide a better cultural experience than the Inca Trail and less crowded!. It goes NE of Ollantayambo whereas MP is approximately West of it.
See http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g294317-d2386645-Reviews-Lares_Trek-Sa cred_Valley_Cusco_Region.html

I have looked more at the description in the AB for the Bolivian sections and tried to follow it on Google maps/Earth. There are problems with alternative spellings of places but the AB refers to Desaguadero (where it continues on from the Peruvian Cuzco - Desaguadero section) - Guaqui- Tiwanacu (sic) - Cantapa - Yanamuyo alta - Viacha.
Cantapa = K'entu Pata on Google maps
It is clear that this Bolivian section follows a continuous line from Desaguadero THROUGH Tiwanaku (although this has a by-pass now which certainly wasn't there when I visited in 1975, indeed the road wasn't even surfaced!) and then branching south of today's main road to La Paz to finisih up in the town of Viacha. I have read a suggestion that the Incas inherited routes from the Tiwanaku civilisation and utilised them in their own roads - which makes sense. But nothing further really on whether the site of Tiwanaku itself has been included. We will just have to await the full Nomination file i guess

Author Khuft
Partaker
#159 | Posted: 5 May 2014 15:09 | Edited by: Khuft 

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#160 | Posted: 6 May 2014 05:09 | Edited by: winterkjm 
From the Grand Canal AB document.

Part 22 (TH-01), Old Beijing City comprises: (1) an
urban section of the canal (0.5 km), which is an
archaeological site; (2) the upper lock of Chengqing; (3)
the lower lock of Chengqing; (4) Shixha Lake. Beijing
marks the northern end of the Grand Canal, and also
shows how canal planning affected the layout and
drainage of the old city.

Maybe of some interest, plenty of us probably visited some of this component, no? Granted it is only a very small portion of the overall route.

Author Durian
Partaker
#161 | Posted: 6 May 2014 05:20 | Edited by: Durian 
winterkjm:
(4) Shixha Lake. Beijing


I think Shixha Lake is Shishahai

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shishahai

From wiki, Shishahai consists of Qianhai, Houhai and Xihai. Most of tourists, including me, visited only Beihai to see white pagoda :(

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#162 | Posted: 6 May 2014 05:49 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Durian:
Shixha Lake

I have visited Silver Ingot Bridge (Yinding Bridge), the surrounding Hutongs, and the Drum and Bell Towers (short walk from lake). If I am not mistaken, looking at one of my pictures it very much seems to be Shixia (Shishahai) lake. So I have most definitely visited this portion, but can I actually count this as a visit? I feel like for the Silk Road and Qhapac Nan I actually visited important portions, though not extensive (components). This component in Beijing is certainly interesting, but I suspect not hugely representative of this large nomination.

By the way, Beihai is connected to Shixia lake (northern portion). So perhaps Beihai (or parts thereof) is included? The AB document indicates the site consists of 35 ha (13 ha buffer zone). If you read the Wikipedia page Shichahai covers 147 ha. So what is actually nominated? I guess this is part of the fun and uniqueness of 2014. Three massive serial nominations!

Here is one of the suggestions by ICOMOS:

In this connection, systematically widen the protection of the canal banks beyond the historic urban zones to include the elements forming the immediate canal landscape: footpaths, trees, facades of bordering houses, etc.

Based on the Referral for the nomination, it is still difficult to determine how the boundaries and buffer zones may change.

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#163 | Posted: 6 May 2014 06:53 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
Gah, I was posting this one the other thread! Great minds think alike.

Reposting it here as it may be of more relevance to this thread.

elsslots:
Beginning to worry about my "tick"

Maybe you can get it from somewhere else, namely Beijing! A fair few others on the forum may get this "tick" on the back of this as well.

ICOMOS Evaluation:
• Part 22 (TH-01), Old Beijing City comprises: (1) an urban section of the canal (0.5 km), which is an archaeological site; (2) the upper lock of Chengqing; (3) the lower lock of Chengqing; (4) Shixha Lake.


So I'm pretty confident it is this area here. The southern lake is translated as Shicha(i) Lake so seems to be the one in question. There is also a lock on the Western side leading to 0.5km of dried canal bed (running along Dongbanqiao Rd/ Beihe Hutong). Perhaps more importantly this batch of lakes is identified as the northern terminus of the Grand Canal.

From zooming in a lot on the map in p185 of ICOMOS evaluations for this year puts it in that area as well. So I think we have a winner, also seems I was on the right lines with my snuffling out a pre-emptive visit (second part of the review).

Shichai Lake and Hui Hai Lake link together there and are a pretty popular night spot (when I visited it felt like it was being developed as a sort of travellers hang out a la Khoa San Road with a night market and lots of slightly soulless Western bars being built or newly opened). It has also been famous for a fair while back for its restaurants selling Peking duck. It is also a short stroll from the Drum and Bell towers, and just north of the Forbidden City and Belhai park.

If all that is right and it gets inscribed we will also have a new connection of sites within walking distance: Temple of Heaven> Forbidden City> Grand Canal.

Hope that brings a few more to the visit counts of people :)

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#164 | Posted: 6 May 2014 08:14 
I'm not saying this is definitive however here are some ideas of the boundaries to help people work it out. N.B. For some reason China is odd on Google Maps you will have to switch to 'Satellite' view for the boundaries to match up.

Whether you would count that as 'visiting' the site is a different matter though.

The Blue section is: (1) an urban section of the canal (0.5 km), which is an archaeological site; (2) the upper lock of Chengqing; (3) the lower lock of Chengqing;

The Green Section is (4) Shixha Lake

The Red Section is Hou Hai lake, which I have included because if you include that, the total area for all the highlighted bits come to 35 ha. which is the size of the site as reported in the table on the Evaluation Report. Hou Hai is the logical continuation of the site, however it isn't mentioned in the nomination.

Sadly for Durian Beihai is too big to be part of it, the northern section of the lake alone is 44ha. :(

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#165 | Posted: 6 May 2014 10:49 
The Central Axis of Beijing (including Beihai) (2013)

I forgot somewhat about this nomination. No need to include Beihai in the Grand Canal nomination, it will be part of this future nomination. I am happy I visited the Bell and Drum Towers, both fascinating places. Furthermore, because of their location, it is a easy to walk to some of the best hutongs and lakes nearby.

Page  Page 11 of 13:  « Previous  1  ...  10  11  12  13  Next » 
WHC Sessions www.worldheritagesite.org Forum / WHC Sessions /
 2014 WHC

Your Reply Click this icon to move up to the quoted message


 ?
Only registered users are allowed to post here. Please, enter your username/password details upon posting a message, or register first.

 
 
 
www.worldheritagesite.org Forum Powered by Chat Forum Software miniBB ®
 ⇑