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Summarising the categories

 
 
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Author elsslots
Admin
#16 | Posted: 30 Jan 2016 14:17 | Edited by: elsslots 
I'm still missing some 150 sites at http://www.worldheritagesite.org/allbyrank.php

I am waiting for some more or final discussions, at categories such as:
- Ancient Rome
- Ancient Greece
- Urban Continuity
- Rock art
- Indigenous religions
- Far Eastern archaeology

Author elsslots
Admin
#17 | Posted: 2 Feb 2016 12:34 | Edited by: elsslots 
I've all 1031 now at http://www.worldheritagesite.org/allbyrank.php .
Battir, Gulf of Porto and Djoudj were missing for various reasons. I've attributed them a (temporary), No, No and Maybe respectively.

Two points for the follow-up:
1.
I think it would be a good idea to reflect upon our "ranking results".
One way could be to determine if we find a category underrepresented, fairly represented or overrepresented on the current WH List.
That should be reflected in the number of sites chosen with a Yes / Bold. So - if fairly represented, about 20% of the category entries should be marked bold. If overrepresented, it should be less than 20%. And if underrepresented, we should be aiming at more than 20%.

2.
The 'Yes' list now has 220 sites. Shall we try to narrow it down to 200? That would be more in line with the "Top 200", although after the voting process by the whole community later on we will automatically pick the 200 most voted for.

Author kkanekahn
Partaker
#18 | Posted: 2 Feb 2016 14:39 | Edited by: kkanekahn 
elsslots:
The 'Yes' list now has 220 sites. Shall we try to narrow it down to 200? That would be more in line with the "Top 200", although after the voting process by the whole community later on we will automatically pick the 200 most voted for.

We should not be confined to one specific number. We have done this for top missing list and discussed to do the same in this category.
As all sites were selected after many discussion and votes, it would be unfair to cut anyone.

Author clyde
Partaker
#19 | Posted: 2 Feb 2016 14:40 
At this stage I think we ought to aim for more than 200 and then choose the Top 200 individually. Therefore I'd suggest to leave the overrepresented and fairly represented sites as is and add the underrepresented ideally filling any possible gaps or making up for any geographical underrepresentation. Perhaps we should discuss the maybes further and if there is general consensus on some maybes we can add them to the current Yes list.

Author kkanekahn
Partaker
#20 | Posted: 2 Feb 2016 14:51 | Edited by: kkanekahn 
clyde:
Perhaps we should discuss the maybes further and if there is general consensus on some maybes we can add them to the current Yes list.


Yeah, I agree to the point. We can rearrange the selected sites and discuss maybe sites to fill the under-represented site. Like combining flora, fauna, forest together and check which region is under-represented. Similarly urban- continuity, medieval and post- medieval can be added and we can check whether there would be any addition or not.

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#21 | Posted: 2 Feb 2016 15:07 | Edited by: Solivagant 
I had wondered whether we should increase the "Yes" number to 250 (approx 25% of the total). This would allow us to transfer 30 from "Maybe" based on factors such as under representation, give us a chance to address Assif's issue regarding Natural sites etc. It would be "neat" to reduce the "maybe" list to 250 also but I suspect that there would be too much argument. Logically however some of them have got there on nothing more than a couple of us being a bit uncertain or having a particular favourite!

But before we do anything i think we should address the question regarding what the lists of Yes and Maybe we have constructed actually "represent" and what their role in any future "vote" is to be etc. The bigger the population of sites which can be voted from then the less statistically significant/useful the result will be. We will get a small number with a very large number of votes and the remainder will be spread across a long asymptotic tail.

Author Assif
Partaker
#22 | Posted: 2 Feb 2016 17:39 
Solivagant:
But before we do anything i think we should address the question regarding what the lists of Yes and Maybe we have constructed actually "represent" and what their role in any future "vote" is to be etc.

According to what we said before we will not have all the list to vote from. The NO list should be out already. With no more than one in favour of any of the sites I would find such a move logical and it would help the voters focus and save Els a lot of work.
The Yes list will be up to vote from. The Maybe list should be divided between Yes and No. How we do this is, I think, what we should discuss next. I would personally love to see some sites from underrepresented categories/geographic areas moved up. We should also discuss the merits of the particular sites according to some thematic guidelines and maybe have a secondary vote on such categories to determine which of the sites move up to the Yes list and which moves down to the No list.
Finally we will be left with a much longer Yes list (I guess around 370 sites) and a much longer No list. We will then be able to vote for the 200 sites out of the Yes list.

Author Colvin
Partaker
#23 | Posted: 3 Feb 2016 23:47 | Edited by: Colvin 
Assif:
I would personally love to see some sites from underrepresented categories/geographic areas moved up.

To help give an idea of where the YES list stands geographically, I sorted them by general regions, and also tallied the number of natural, cultural, and mixed sites per region. I haven't done any looks at the categories.

Here's Part I:

Australia/Oceania: 9 Total (5 Natural, 2 Cultural, 2 Mixed)
Great Barrier Reef (N)
Te Wahipounamu (N)
Uluru (M)
Hawaii Volcanoes (N)
Fraser Island (N)
Rapa Nui (C)
Sub-Antarctic Islands (N)
Sydney Opera House (C)
Rock Islands (M)

South America: 17 Total (5 Natural, 11 Cultural, 1 Mixed)
Galapagos Islands (N)
Ouro Preto (C)
Los Glaciares (N)
Machu Picchu (M)
Cuzco (C)
Iguazu National Park (N)
Cartagena (C)
Chan Chan (C)
Potosi (C)
Brasilia (C)
Nasca Lines (C)
San Agustín (C)
Central Amazon Conservation Complex (N)
Pantanal (N)
Caral-Supe (C)
Coffee Cultural Landscape (C)
Qhapaq Ñan (C)

North America and the Caribbean: 23 Total (11 Natural, 11 Cultural, 1 Mixed)
Yellowstone (N)
Mesa Verde (C)
Tikal National Park (M)
Grand Canyon (N)
Glacier parks (N)
Redwood (N)
SGang Gwaay (C)
Head-Smashed-In Buffalo Jump (C)
Statue of Liberty (C)
Canadian Rocky Mountain Parks (N)
Yosemite National Park (N)
Québec (C)
Puebla (C)
Chaco Culture (C)
Mexico City and Xochimilco (C)
Teotihuacan (C)
Chichen-Itza (C)
Viñales Valley (C)
Alejandro de Humboldt National Park (N)
Ilulissat Icefjord (N)
Gulf of California (N)
Joggins Fossil Cliffs (N)
El Pinacate (N)

Africa: 32 Total (12 Natural, 18 Cultural, 2 Mixed)
Lalibela (C)
Pyramids (Memphis) (C)
Ancient Thebes (C)
Nubian Monuments (C)
Historic Cairo (C)
Ngorongoro (M)
Site of Carthage (C)
Virunga National Park (N)
Aksum (C)
Lower Valley of the Awash (C)
Ruins of Kilwa Kisiwani and Songo Mnara (C)
Serengeti (N)
Aldabra Atoll (N)
Leptic Magna (C)
Medina of Marrakesh (C)
Great Zimbabwe Ruins (C)
Ksar of Aït Ben Haddou (C)
Kilimanjaro National Park (N)
Kairouan (C)
Djenné (C)
Banc d'Arguin (N)
Victoria Falls (N)
Cliff of Bandiagara (M)
Air and Ténéré (N)
Saint Catherine Area (C)
Cape Floral Region (N)
Koutammakou (C)
Vredefort Dome (N)
Meroe (C)
Kenya Lake System (N)
Namib Sand Sea (N)
Okavango Delta (N)

Middle East (including Iran): 20 Total (18 Cultural, 2 Mixed)
Meidan Emam, Esfahan (C)
Persepolis (C)
Tchogha Zanbil (C)
Damascus (C)
Palmyra (C)
Old City of Jerusalem (C)
Shibam (C)
Baalbek (C)
Hatra (C)
Göreme National Park (M)
Petra (C)
Sana'a (C)
Aleppo (C)
Nemrut Dag (C)
Crac des Chevaliers (C)
Samarra (C)
Wadi Rum (M)
Persian Garden (C)
Çatalhöyük (C)
Bethlehem (C)

Author Colvin
Partaker
#24 | Posted: 3 Feb 2016 23:48 
And here is Part II:

Asia: 58 Total (15 Natural, 43 Cultural)
Sagarmatha National Park (N)
Kathmandu Valley (C)
Moenjodaro (C)
Sigiriya (C)
Ellora Caves (C)
Agra Fort (C)
Taj Mahal (C)
Ajanta Caves (C)
Sun Temple, Konarak (C)
Khajuraho Group of Monuments (C)
Mausoleum of the First Qin Emperor (C)
Great Wall (C)
Imperial Palace (C)
Magao Caves (C)
Chola Temples (C)
Nandi Devi and Valley of Flowers (N)
Komodo National Park (N)
Prambanan (C)
Sukhotai (C)
Borobudur (C)
Angkor (C)
Bukhara (C)
Himeji-jo (C)
Qutb Minar (C)
Temple, Mansion and Cemetery of Confucius (C)
Ancient Kyoto (C)
Ha Long Bay (N)
Potala Palace (C)
Rice Terraces of the Philippine Cordilleras (C)
Itsukushima Shrine (C)
Volcanoes of Kamchatka (N)
Lake Baikal (N)
Genbaku Dome (C)
Changdeokgung Palace Complex (C)
The Sundarbans (N)
Ping Yao (C)
Classical Gardens of Suzhou (C)
Temple of Heaven (C)
Ancient Nara (C)
Puerto-Princesa Subterranean River (N)
Dazu Rock Carvings (C)
Lorentz National Park (N)
Gunung Mulu (N)
Kinabalu Park (N)
Samarkand (C)
Mahabodhi Temple Complex (C)
Three parallel rivers of Yunnan (N)
Tropical Rain Forest Sumatra (N)
Sichuan Giant Panda Sanctuaries (N)
South China Karst (N)
Melaka and George Town (C)
Fujian Tulou (C)
Jantar Mantar (C)
West Lake (C)
Bali Subak system (C)
Hill Forts of Rajasthan (C)
Grand Canal (C)
Silk Roads (C)

Europe: 61 Total (5 Natural, 54 Cultural, 2 Mixed)
Aachen Cathedral (C)
Cracow (C)
Wieliczka and Bochnia Royal Salt Mines (C)
Auschwitz Birkenau (C)
Versailles (C)
Vézère Valley (C)
Mont-Saint-Michel (C)
Dubrovnik (C)
Rome (C)
Florence (C)
Granada (C)
Vatican City (C)
Works of Antoni Gaudí (C)
Istanbul (C)
Altamira Cave (C)
Stonehenge (C)
Gwynedd Castles (C)
Toledo (C)
Ironbridge Gorge (C)
Acropolis (C)
Piazza del Duomo (C)
Westminster (C)
Venice and its Lagoon (C)
Budapest (C)
Meteora (M)
Mount Athos (M)
Skocjan Caves (N)
Olympia (C)
Kizhi Pogost (C)
St. Petersburg (C)
Kremlin and Red Square (C)
Paris, Banks of the Seine (C)
Prague (C)
Route of Santiago de Compostela (C)
Ferrara (C)
Sintra (C)
Siena (C)
Sceilg Mhichíl (C)
Ravenna (C)
Villa Romana del Casale (C)
Pompei (C)
Maritime Greenwich (C)
Hallstatt-Dachstein (C)
Mycenae and Tiryns (C)
Museumsinsel (Museum Island) (C)
Wachau Cultural Landscape (C)
Isole Eolie (N)
Brugge (C)
New Lanark (C)
Vienna (C)
Swiss Alps Jungfrau-Aletsch (N)
Kew Gardens (C)
Thingvellir (C)
Pico Island (C)
Etruscan Necropolises (C)
West Norwegian Fjords (N)
Teide National Park (N)
Amsterdam Canal Ring (C)
Selimiye Mosque (C)
Medici Villas and Gardens (C)
Decorated cave of Pont d'Arc (C)

Author Assif
Partaker
#25 | Posted: 3 Feb 2016 23:50 
Geographic gap: 59 sites in Europe out of 220: 27%.
Cultural/natural gap: 57 natural or mixed sites out of 220: 28.5 %

In our current YES list Europe significantly less overrepresented than in the real WHS list, however, I think it won't be bad if we could promote some sites from underrepresented areas such as Oceania, Subsaharan Africa and South America.
In our current YES list natural sites are significantly less overrepresented than in the real WHS list, however, some mixed sites (Machu Picchu, Meteora, Mt. Athos) were only selected by us for their cultural assets. Moreover, it seems some sites such as Banc d'Arguin got in despite not having the necessary number of votes. I would also suggest we promote natural sites before cultural ones.

Author elsslots
Admin
#26 | Posted: 4 Feb 2016 01:13 
Assif:
According to what we said before we will not have all the list to vote from. The NO list should be out already. With no more than one in favour of any of the sites I would find such a move logical and it would help the voters focus and save Els a lot of work.The Yes list will be up to vote from.

Well, we have said otherwise elsewhere:

elsslots:
elsslots: clyde: I'd prefer to be able to choose the Top 200 from the whole WH listWe could still do this in the end, but I like doing the excercise of going through all 1031 first to get a better feel for:- how we define "the best" (iconic and unique are two criteria that already were brought forward)- sites we haven't visited ourselves (for most people that's over 50%)- balance between the variety of sitesNow we're well on our way, and in the light of the remarks made in the "Out of the race - last chance" post, I start to lean more to this point of view brought forward by Clyde. There will always be some personal favourites left, that would make your own Top 200 "personal".See the current status: http://www.worldheritagesite.org/allbyrank.php , I have been looking to present it by order of year of inclusion, another way to look at the whole batch.

I'd be in favour of having a free choice among the 1031, so there will be room for personal favourites of 100 people instead of 7 people discussing it down to the last 250. The idea that I had and what we're working towards now is:
- show the voting form (checklist) in the order as displayed on http://www.worldheritagesite.org/allbyrank.php, so with Yes and Maybe more prominent than the No's (including reason)

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#27 | Posted: 4 Feb 2016 01:48 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Could some one please remind me of the "rules" adopted for determining the ins and outs?
a. I look at Continuing CLs and see e.g Coffee Landscapes as italicised but in the summary as yes.
b. I look at the voting and See 3 YES (Colvin, Kanfil and Assif (But Assif seems to have 2 posted different voting statements so I am not clear) and 3 NO (Khanekhan, Fr etc and Clyde).
c. So 50/50 with 3 YES/3 NO
d. Does this mean that if I now vote (which I didn't in this category other than a couple of comments since at the time I wasn't aware of the voting procedure) NO for Coffee Landscape and turn the vote into 3 YES/4 NO (ie c 43% of voters = Y) that it would "make a difference" or does any site getting 3 YES out of the 7 to 10 of us who have taken part in this exercise at various times automatically "get in"?

Author Assif
Partaker
#28 | Posted: 4 Feb 2016 05:54 
A YES should represent a substantial majority which we haven't determined, but I guess around two thirds. With 3/3 Coffee LC should have got a Maybe not a YES. Maybe there are more mistakes of that sort around.

Author kkanekahn
Partaker
#29 | Posted: 4 Feb 2016 06:55 
Solivagant:
Could some one please remind me of the "rules" adopted for determining the ins and outs please?

d. Does this mean that if I now vote (which I didn't in this category other than a couple of comments since at the time I wasn't aware of the voting procedure) NO for Coffee Landscape and turn the vote into 3 YES/4 NO (ie c 43% of voters = Y) that it would "make a difference" or does any site getting 3 YES out of the 7 to 10 of us who have taken part in this exercise at various times automatically "get in"?

PALEONTOLOGY- All 3 selected sites got only 3 out 7 votes.
Bethlehem is another case.
San Augstin (2 yes and 1 maybe out of 9 votes)
Banc'd Anguin

and there may be some other sites (as I don't clearly remember )

Author Assif
Partaker
#30 | Posted: 4 Feb 2016 19:07 
kkanekahn:
and there may be some other sites

So we need to review all summaries and see if there are any mistakes.

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 Summarising the categories

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