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Denmark

 
Author Astraftis
Partaker
#1 | Posted: 3 Aug 2021 20:44 | Edited by: Astraftis 
While its neighbours Germany, Norway and Sweden all have a topic, Denmark is still missing - so let's start one! 🇩🇰

And I'm starting with a question. I am doing some research about Denmark's sites because, after sadly but definitely having dismissed Mongolia as my destination for this year, I am turning to an "all-Denmark" tour. So, I was browsing all inscribed, tentative and formerly tentative sites, and additionally I came upon this page (in Danish, at 19th Oct 2020) of the Danish Ministry of Culture about the tentative list. The English version seems different and with less information, and last updated on 4th Feb 2019. The UNESCO website shows 31st Jan 2019 as the last revision of Denmark's tentative list, as does the last official document on the topic.

Confronting the lists, it seems that Arbejderbevægelsens forenings- og forsamlingsbygninger "buildings for assemblies and unions of workers' movements" (29 Jan 2020) and Møns klint "Møn's cliff" (20 Nov 2019) have been added (regarding the former: er optaget på den danske tentativliste). These sites are not former tentative sites. So, are they soon to be added to the T-List, and/or can they considered to be pending?

The cliffs are already famous, a sort of cousin to the already inscribed Stevns klint. Does this make it less considerable?

The buildings of the workers' movement are located in Copenhagen and, apart from generic "folkets huse" n Denmark and all over the world, the site seems to be centered around the Arbejdermuseum, which is said to be promoting it and working (... sorry) since 2008 (!) on the identification of buildings of interest for a transnational, serial nomination. The assembly hall in Copenhagen is apparently the oldest of its kind in Europe and the second oldest in the world. But I do not read anything more precise. I really cannot judge it: I feel it could be too stretched (too immaterial) and, while representing an undoubtedly important piece of (not only European) history, it could also be deemed too political. Anyway, I'll see if I will manage to visit the museum, if nothing else, just out of curiousity...

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#2 | Posted: 4 Aug 2021 04:13 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Astraftis:
Møns klint "Møn's cliff" (20 Nov 2019) have been added .........The cliffs are already famous, a sort of cousin to the already inscribed Stevns klint. Does this make it less considerable?

"Klints and UNESCO World Heritage" - now there's a nice piece of Trivia!
It appears that the word "Klint" is indeed linked etymologically with the English word "Cliff" but it is also apparently a specific Geological term" with Baltic "connections" -
"The term klint, widely used in countries around the Baltic Sea, was originally a Danish and Swedish word synonymous with klev, signifying an escarpment in sedimentary rocks. Usually it comprises a line of marine abrasion or ancient (pre-Quaternary) fluviatile erosion scarps."

I know of 4 UNESCO/WHS related "Klints"

a. The already inscribed "Stevns Klint" - inscribed of course specifically because of its visible K/T boundary.

b. The "possibly soon to be added to Denmark's T List" "Møns Klint". I note that this is already a "UNESCO Biosphere reserve". As far as I can make out, the only "connections" to the Stevns Klint are the use of the word "Klint" and the fact that both are chalk cliffs - they are not part of the same geological formation. They are both generally "Cretacious" (though not of the exact same period/strata) but Stevns of course "majors" on the fact that it also has "post K/T" formations. Interestingly the WHS of Jasmond NP on the island of Rugen, inscribed for its beech forests, does belong to the same geological formation and also features fine chalk cliffs (but not called "Klints"!). If I were to go back to Denmark I would certainly take in Møns - irrespective of any WH credentials it might or might not have (Despite the site's undoubted "interests" I don't personally "see" any such "credentials" - but with the almost infinite "stretching" of the concept of OUV what do I know!)! Quite apart from its inherent natural interest (it reminds me of the chalk cliffs of S England) It seems to figure large in Danish consciousness regarding their landscape and has long featured as a subject for Danish artists. It also has what has been described as "one of the World's most beautiful buildings"!!!

c. The Estonian T List site titled "Baltic Klint". This is a nice map of said Baltic Klint which shows its "route" from the the island of Oland in the West across to Lake Ladoga in the East. One might ask whether somewhere someone might be thinking that there might one day be a transnational WHS covering every exposed (and unexposed) element of this geological phenomenon in much the same way as the Beech forests of Europe and the Roman Limes. I joke - but only by a little.

d. Location No 30 of the WHS of St Petersberg titled "Izhorsky Bench (Glint)"
We came across this in the Forum 5 years ago when we were trying to establish the co-ordinates of all elements of St Petersburg. We never have established quite where and why a geological feature should be a part of the "Cultural" site of the City of St Petersburg but, nevertheless, a part of the eastern end of the Baltic Klint does appear on the WHS list identified as such! In Russian it is known as the "Балтийско-Ладожский глинт" - "Baltic-Ladoga Glint". (In its defence Russia would point out that numerous other WHS inscribed on "cultural criteria" contain features which are "Natural" which nevertheless contribute to the site's OUV - but it would be nice to have an explanation of this one's contribution to the Cultural OUV of St Petersubrg!)

Author Jurre
Partaker
#3 | Posted: 4 Aug 2021 05:00 | Edited by: Jurre 
Astraftis:
The buildings of the workers' movement are located in Copenhagen and, apart from generic "folkets huse" n Denmark and all over the world, the site seems to be centered around the Arbejdermuseum, which is said to be promoting it and working (... sorry) since 2008 (!) on the identification of buildings of interest for a transnational, serial nomination. The assembly hall in Copenhagen is apparently the oldest of its kind in Europe and the second oldest in the world. But I do not read anything more precise. I really cannot judge it: I feel it could be too stretched (too immaterial) and, while representing an undoubtedly important piece of (not only European) history, it could also be deemed too political. Anyway, I'll see if I will manage to visit the museum, if nothing else, just out of curiousity...

I posted this article in Dutch about it in the "Aspiring to be on the T List!" thread some weeks ago. It is a transnational nomination and would at least also include a building in Belgium. Denmark seems to be taking the lead in this proposal.

Jurre:
People's houses / Workers' Assembly Halls (Transnational serial nomination)

Belgium

De Vooruit

De Vooruit binnenkort misschien Unesco Werelderfgoed

Denmark has launched a request to stimulate the People's Houses to join forces to go for world heritage status. The Danish initiators want to make an inventory of people's houses in order to get as many of them inscribed. The dossier will apparently be submitted in 2023.


Author Astraftis
Partaker
#4 | Posted: 4 Aug 2021 06:34 | Edited by: Astraftis 
Jurre
Ah, sorry, I totally missed it (I was in Rome :-D)! But yes, from the Danish site their buildings clearly appear as the centerpiece of the whole nomination. Anyway, I was surprised that they already present its presence on the tentative list as a matter of fact, when there are still no clear details. Let's see what happens, I am curious!

Author Astraftis
Partaker
#5 | Posted: 4 Aug 2021 07:27 | Edited by: Astraftis 
Solivagant
Since you brought up the etymological question, I also did a little research, because the word klint did indeed sound unsual to my ear. It appears to be very specifically limited to Swedish and Danish and I could not find it in a Norwegian vocabulary. A middle low German klint 'top of a cliff' is cited,but again, it does not seem to be part of modern standard German. The original form should be glint and as stated here it is probably of Balto-Germanic origin, from the Estonian area, used originally to refer to cliffs on the Gulf of Finland, and introduced by the Balto-Russian-German geologist Friedrich Schmidt, born in Estonia. And who knows where this word has emerged from before that and what its dialectal distribution and actual common use is/was in the Germanic and Baltic (and beyond?) areas. It might also be a reborrowing, bounced back and forth on the shores of the Baltic Sea multiple times until its "official scientific" appearance and public knowledge in the XIXth century. But at first sight it is most probably not etymologically related to cliff and cognates, like German Klippe, all with the same meaning and distinct forms (all keeping a labial sound b/p/f). Of course, it is very similar in sound and nearly synonymous, so some convergence might have happened.

So, in the end we are left with a very particular, regional and superspecialised word which has found its way on the List and "won" the concurrence with the more current cliff/Klippe/...! :-)

And , maybe for that, I will also pay a visit to the Møn's one indipendently from its WHS status! :-)

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#6 | Posted: 4 Aug 2021 08:43 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Astraftis:
So, in the end we are left with a very particular, regional and superspecialised word

Hi Astraftis
As you seem to be interested in matters etymological this might interest and amuse you!
I post it here lacking anywhere better and as another example of a very specific technical word in a (potential) WHS coming from an unusual source.
Today Jarek posted a review of the Moldovan T List site titled "The Typical Crernozem Soils of the Balti Steppe"
This is indeed what it is called on the UNESCO Web site... But incorrectly.
It should be "The typical Chernozem soils.... " from Russian for "black and soil, earth or land" (chorny + zemlya).
That this error has remained unnoticed on the UNESCO web site suggests that neither UNESCO nor Moldovan staff check it much!

Author Astraftis
Partaker
#7 | Posted: 4 Aug 2021 09:46 
Hi, Solivagant!

Yes, I, too, noticed it, and was left quite baffled, wondering if it were a macrotypo of the site... but you tell me it's not!!! You are right, this sheds a desolated light of neglect on that tentative site.

Anyway, we are probably drifting away from Denmark with its klints and social welfare, but all the etymological issues might warrant a topic for themselves!

Author elsslots
Admin
#8 | Posted: 17 Aug 2021 09:29 
I received an update by e-mail on the worker's movement possible twhs. It comes from Marie Brøndgaard, curator of the Arbejdermuseet:

"... the reason we are not on the official tentative list and only on the national tentative list, is because we are trying to develop a transnational serial nomination of workers' assembly halls worldwide. At the moment we are trying to locate still existing workers' assembly halls around the world, which is not an easy task. We are working in a joint effort with a workers' assembly hall in Belgium, one in Finland and two in Australia. You can read about the project here. We also have a public facebook group, which you can access here."

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#9 | Posted: 17 Aug 2021 10:27 
Thanks for that update Els.
I have only seen the one in Gent, which is rather magnificent.

I'm guessing we have a different name for them in the UK as workers assembly hall doesn't really ring any bells. Though something like a Miners Institute/ Hall, or at a less grand more local level a Working Men's Club would be common across the country.

I wonder if the Trades Union Congress House in London would fit the criteria (it may be a little late). I really love the building, and it is just across the road from my office s would be delighted to see it become a WHS :)

Author elsslots
Admin
#10 | Posted: 17 Aug 2021 10:41 
The ones now under consideration:
The Victorian Trades Hall. Melbourne, Australia. Founded in 1859. www.weareunion.org.au
Paasitorni, Helsinki, Finland. Built in 1908. www.paasitorni.fi
Feestlokaal van Vooruit. Ghent, Belgium. Built 1913. www.vooruit.be
The Workers' Assembly Hall. Copenhagen, Denmark. Now the Workers Museum. Built in 1879. www.arbejdermuseet.dk
Broken Hill Trades Hall. Broken Hill, Australia. Built from 1898-1905.

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#11 | Posted: 18 Aug 2021 14:35 | Edited by: Solivagant 
There is already (at least?) one "Workers Assembly Hall" inscribed on the WHS list.... The "Workman's Hall" In Blaenavon from 1895 which is a significant element in the nomination..
There is also of course the magnificent "Victoria Hall" In Saltaire from 1871 .. But, as I read the definition of "Workers Assembly halls" from the Danish literature, a requirement is that the building must have been constructed from the contributions of the workers themselves rather than having been donated by a philanthropist. This will presumably exclude buildings such as "Workers Palaces" provided by the State.

As Meltwaterfalls indicates, a range of different terms is used in UK for this type of building. Also I wonder if, for a range of cultural and historic reasons, it was less common in UK to mix the functions of education, sport, politics, social activity and entertainment in a single building. "Workers' Education" for instance is well represented by the vast number of "Mechanics institute" buildings. It would also seem that the places on the current list as above are there because they have indicated an interest in gaining inscription rather than because of assessed architectural or historic merit.

@Meltwaterfalls... Re "TUC House". You missed out the "Pitman's Parliament" In Durham. (Officially "The Durham Miner's Hall") I quote.
"The 'irreplaceable' Pitman's Parliament has been recognised as one of the most important places in the history of England. The home of the Durham Miners Association has been selected by Historic England as one of 100 places that bring to life the country's "rich and extraordinary history".Redhills: Durham Miners Hall ranks alongside the Palace of Westminster in the top ten places in the 'Power, Protest and Progress' category."

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