Just returned from Portugal and ticked off several tentatives and finished of all sites in mainland Portugal. Some thoughts.

World Heritage Sites
Note: My ratings may not align. Need to update them.

Great 4+
* Sintra - I would rate Sintra as the highest WHS in Portugal, simply because it covers a pretty long time span and is uniquely Portuguese.

Good 3+
* Oporto - Prettiest old town in Portugal. Church of St. Francis is undergoing renovations, unfortunately.
* Tomar - Crusaders and old church incl. Manuline style.
* Belem - The one sight of Portugal. Must visit.
* Evora - Mix of Roman ruins and old town / fortification makes this a great visit.
* Coa Valley - Very good presentation. I generally dont like rockart but the way it's presented elevates the site.

OK 2.5
* Braga - Wonderful landscape architecture
* Elvas - Large fortification. I don't think additional bulwarks on the Spanish/Portguese border need to be added.
* Coimbra - Nice old town and university.
* Guimareas - Nice old town.

Below Average 1.5+
* Batalha - Pretty spacey architecture, but failed to impress.
* Alcobaça - More monastery / church.
* Douro - Failed to grasp the OUV. Just another wine region. Didnt find a single unique structure.

Terrible 1 and less
* Mafra - Why is this on the list.

Tentative

Ok:
* Historic Centre of Guimarães and Couros Zone (extension) Proposed as Extension of a WHS - Looks like some minor boundary cleanups. If I understand the map correctly, this is the area where the Camino passes through.

Maybe:
* Pombaline Lisbon, Historical Lisbon, Global City - I think Lisboa can holds its own against Oporto or Vilnius. Personally, I would prefer an extension to Belem into Historical Lisboa. Still, I don't think this adds super much to the list.
* Southwest Coast - Was a scenic walk, no doubt. But then Dover, Normandia, ... should all be added. It's not enough to be a scenic high coast.
* Route of Magellan - Adding a square in Belem as a separate WHS is a joke. Adding WHS based on "journeys" doesnt make sense to me.
*

Nope:
* Aguas Livres Aqueduct - Why?! Nothing unique or important about this structure.
* Bulwarked Fortifications Proposed as Extension of a WHS - Elvas covers this topic nicely. Dont see a reason to extend.
* Desert of the Discalced Carmelites and Built Ensemble of the Palace-Hotel in Bussaco - Pales in comparison to Sintra. Gardens are not well kept.
* Ensemble of Alvaro Siza's Architecture Works in Portugal - Don't see this adds much. Style is an evolution of previous architects (Le Corbusier). In addition, major safety (how is that possible?!) concerns which to me means he failed at his job.
* Head Office and Garden of the Calouste Gulbenkian Foundation - Not as unique as the Portuguese would like us to believe. If I want the Barbican (yes!), I inscribe the Barbican.
* Historic Centre of Guimarães and Couros Zone (extension) Proposed as Extension of a WHS -
* Mértola - Yet another pretty, fortified old town with Roman / Arab ruins. Feels like this is too little with Evora nearby.
* Routes of Santiago de Compostela in Portugal Proposed as Extension of a WHS - Dont see that we need to add the full Camino network to the list. Would have limited it to some representative parts, but that ship has sailed long time ago. I visited the (new) church in Coimbra and crossed the camino several times as it runs through other Portuguese WHS, e.g. Guimareaas and Braga (?).
* Sites of Globalization - Lagos and the area around Sages are nice (for the highcoast), but I again don't think this warrants an inscription. Especially, if it simply adds existing sites (Azores, Madeira).
* Vila Viçosa - Pretty town with a nice castle. But... Pales in comparison to Evora. Nearby Redondo looked very similar, only missing a palace, but that shouldn't count.
* Levadas of Madeira Island - Havent been but this should be an extension (mixed WHS) not a separate WHS.

What else?
I think the existing Portuguese list already covers a lot (too much) and I don't see any immediate gaps. Maybe a Bronze Age site would be a nice addition. The Eiffel bridge in Porto could also be added in a serial site of his constructions.

Nice rundown Nan, I like it when you do these.

I don't think I would argue with many of them (though, going against type, I'm not as big a fan of the Barbican as others seem to be, and I actually preferred the Gulbenkian though wouldn't really say it is a worthy WHS)

The one site in Portugal I was rather surprised by the quality of was Conímbriga. It was a much larger and much more extensive than I had expected. The list is already rather full of ruined roman towns, but I think there could be a bit of potential in this site, even if not it is well worth a visit if you happen to have spare time around Coimbra.

nfmungard

Hi, I want to add some information and my opinion to your notes on the Portuguese WHS because some critical data must be included in your comment.

Alcobaça - It's the only Cistercian monastery in the world that kept authentic to the aesthetic style of this order, not even in France, where the order came from; you can find the original architectural style that you can still see in this monastery in Portugal.
Mafra - To name one reason, this is the most significant musical structure in the world - meaning the carillons and the six musical organs inside the basilica, designed and built to play simultaneously in the 18th century with a complexity that cannot be found anywhere else in the world.
Route of Magellan - We have seen a lot of places around the world that were added to the WHS list due to their historical relevance and social and political impact on the planet, not only because of exceptional architectural or artistic value but also because of their influence and importance to culture. This is the case with this proposal.
Aguas Livres Aqueduct - To name one reason, it is only the world's largest pointed stone arch with a height of 65 metres and a width of 29 metres. It was the last classical aqueduct to be built in the 18th century anywhere else in the world.
Head Office and Garden of the Calouste Gulbenkian Foundation - The Barbican was built in the 80s, and Gulbenkian was launched at the end of the 50s and opened in the 60s. Hence, there is a big difference between the two. Also, how it interconnected a cultural centre inserted into a landscape is one of the first in the world to do like this.
Mértola - To name one reason, you can find an early Christian basilica with two baptisteries, one of the biggest in the world from the 5th century.

On the Magellan Route, I should probably flag up that when I chose the three current points I just used the Discoveries Monument as a reasonable guess. The actual nomination doesn't have specific locations, but does mention Monuments being part of it, so seemed like a reasonable assumption.

Though obviously the main oddity of the Portuguesse propossal of Route of Magellan. First around the World is that the route didn't actually go to Portugal.
It departed from Sanlúcar de Barrameda in Spain, so any Portuguese locations are going to be, at best, tangental to the actual route.

So to clarify the "Candidacy of the Circum-Navigation Route to World Heritage, jointly promoted by Portugal and Spain, along with the other countries on the Route."
https://www.portugal.gov.pt/pt/gc21/comunicacao/documento?i=declaracao-dos-governos-de-espanha-e-de-portugal-sobre-a-comemoracao-da-viagem-de-circum-navegacao
https://apatria.org/cultura/fernao-de-magalhaes-500-anos-depois-a-magia-de-uma-viagem-global/

The reasons for the submission coming from Portugal are straightforward. Fernando de Magalhães was (and still is) Portuguese, and he imagined the route while working with D Manuel on several wars on the Indic. He also drafted the project in Lisbon, Portugal, while at the service of the Portuguese king D Manuel. However, D Manuel did not accept the project, and Magalhães turned to the Spanish crown. To make his navigation across the globe, he had to cross the Portuguese area of the globe and the Spanish (remember that the world was divided between these two countries). The Maluku islands of spice (the goal of his circumnavigation) were on the Portuguese side of the globe. Hope this helps.

Didnt know. Interesting. Still, there are three monasteries/churches grouped together in close proximity so a high level (East Asian) view could be: Yet another one of those.


The site's OUV encompasses a hunting ground. Not seeing the focus on the musical OUV.


I also argue against the Luther sites and those are more localised and tangible than some spots around the globe. For the things you describe, intangible heritage exists.


Parsing your sentence carefully, you admit that this is a late structure using modern construction techniques to build a deprecated structure. That's why nobody exceeded it, nobody needed to. This is the end point, not the start point of a development, and I am hard pressed to see OUV in that just because it's big.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calouste_Gulbenkian_Museum
Looking at wikipedia (EN), I have to state that a) the section on architecture is rather short and b) the architects don't even have their own wiki pages. Now, this may be an overlooked treasure, but it seems the internet architecture community does no value the building too highly. If it were more off the beaten path or centuries odler, I would understand. But it's a prominent structure in Lisboa built less than 100 years ago.


Again, big does not equate OUV. I can see a case for late antiquity or Moorish middle ages missing on the list. It's just not much OUV from my point of view.

The Hispano/Lusitanian rivalry on The Magellan Route is quite amusing - but does nothing to bolster the case that there is anything in the proposal to justify its entry on the World's list of great TANGIBLE heritage sites.

The proposal was, initially, made solely by Portugal and only later was Spain given a look in.
See this link for wider nationalistic aspects surrounding the matter. Note that Magellan's papers have quite justifiably been progressed for the Memory of the World Register, jointly, by Spain and Portugal - IMO that should be adequate "recognition" - but there aren't a lot of "tourist dollars" in dusty old papers - hence the desire to find a "WHS" somewhere!!

If anyone has 30 minutes to spare this podcast about Magellan and his voyage might be of interest. Titled "The Magellan Myth Uncovered" it involves the Anglo/British historian Felipe Fernandez Armesto who is a specialist in the period and the area. He may be regarded as too pro-Spanish and I would be interested in any rebuttal coming from the Portuguese "side"!

Looks like waiting until my lunchbreak to post has meant others have already made similar points, hey ho :)

Though Solivagant obviously knows my interests and propossig a podcast I can listen to as I walk to the bakery will always get me on board.


Thanks for the additional information.

If I am reading it correctly the Portuguese nomination in 2017 seemed to have caused a bit of controversy in some of the Spanish press for proposing it alone, and that it is now (from 2019 onwards) the two Iberian countries to lead on it together?
Though this isn't reflected anywhere on the UNESCO site, so thanks for flagging up this change.

Of course Magalhães/ Magellan was Portuguese, the issue would be that the proposal is for the Route itself which didn't actually go to anything currently within the boundaries of modern Portugal, so any site proposed in modern Portugal would be tangential or associative.

I was just flagging up that the Discoveries Monument may well have no role at all in the final proposal, it was just an associative monument I chose as a loaction that fit the criteria in the wording of the 2017 nomination, so don't put too much emphasis on that specific location being part of the tentative site.

I think it is an interesting proposal, but I am not sure it is one that fully works with this world heritage list, which is designed to protect specific tangible locations. I did at one stage look into mapping the whole root, but never completed it.

Perhaps it sits better on something like the Memory of the World list, of which the Treaty of Tordesillas is also part.

The closest actual World Heritage Site I can think of is The Luther Memorials, which are primarily of importance for association with a specific person and acts that happened there, rather than the intrinsic quality of the buildings themselves, but even then, these were the places where the specific events happened.

Hey all, and thank you for all your comments.


From the UNESCO site The inscription would be part od the UNESCO Roads of Dialogue concept " already inscribed in the UNESCO World Heritage List such as the Chinese Section of the Silk Road, the Qhapaq Ñan Andean Road System, the Struve Geodetic Arc, the Astronomical Observatories of Ukraine and the Liberation Heritage Route." you can also add the Caminos de Santiago in Spain...


Also, you can find this information on the UNESCO site "A paradigm of the architecture of the modern movement, this property is included in the DOCOMOMO list of the 100 architectural monuments of the 20th century", as to not appear on the internet, Portugal is a small country with only 10 million people, not finding any information online or in the Wikipedia should not count as a parameter. I do try my best to make entries on Wikipedia relevant to Portuguese history and culture, but I think this is a problem most small countries have in common.


You can find some studies being made by the Vatican because it is considered very important even in the context of the history of religion and in particular the different branches of Christianity in early Europe.


I would suggest a very interesting documentary from the french channel Arte, that listens to Portuguese, Spanish, British, French and South American specialists.
Its called MAGELLAN'S EXTRAORDINARY ODYSSEY - you can find it here https://en.unifrance.org/movie/55780/magellan-s-extraordinary-odyssey
Portuguese version: https://www.rtp.pt/play/p11117/e662003/a-odisseia-de-fernao-de-magalhaes


I also did not find the information updated on the UNESCO site, however as you can see from the joint document emitted in 2019, the two countries were planning on doing this.
Here the joint declaration from Portugal and Spain: https://www.portugal.gov.pt/download-ficheiros/ficheiro.aspx?v=%3d%3dBAAAAB%2bLCAAAAAAABAAzNzU2AQD6qce7BAAAAA%3d%3d

Thank you all

The 500 anniversary of the circumnavigation in 2021 was marketed /celbrated in the Philippines as 500 years of Christianity. Hence there were several events and commemoration taken place. Commemoration markers were placed in the places mentioned in Pigafetta's chronicles, Definitely not all of those are worthy to be included in the nomination (should it progress).

There are at least 5 sites that have strong associative values that can merit their inclusion
1. Homonhon Island - the place where Magellan first landed. It seemed historians has found a rock in 1970s a rock (still onsite) with etched initials believed to be done my magellan's crew
2. Basillica Menor de Cebu - already mentioned in a Portugal's description. It houses the image of Child Jesus that Magellan gave to the local ruler. The image was recovered years later during de Legazpi's expedition. The church is the oldest in the Philippines and believed to be erected in the same site the image was found.
3. Magellan's Cross Pavillon - just beside the Basillica. The original wooden cross planted by Magellan's Men (or maybe some parts of it) is encased in a new cross back in 1835
4. Magellan Monument in Mactan – A stone obelisk built in 1866 dedicated to explorer Ferdinand Magellan. Supposedly built near the beach where the battle of Mactan happened
5. Site of Philippines' first Cagholic mass at Limasawa

"Madeira Levadas are formal candidates for World Heritage Site
The President of the Regional Government, Miguel Albuquerque, who reacted to the candidacy of Levadas da Madeira to UNESCO World Heritage, stated that there was "no doubt that it is a unique and secular heritage" and that "this candidacy is a tribute to the effort human"."

In Portuguese: https://www.publituris.pt/2023/03/16/levadas-da-madeira-sao-formalmente-candidatas-a-patrimonio-mundial

Douro Line wants to be a UNESCO World Heritage Site

The Douro Line wants to be a World Heritage by Unesco. This challenge was launched by Associação Vale d'Ouro, which aims to enhance the route on rails built at the end of the 19th century and which follows a large part of the Douro River. The classification could reinforce the role of this infrastructure in the region and attract even more visitors.

In portuguese: https://eco.sapo.pt/2023/03/28/linha-do-douro-quer-ser-patrimonio-mundial-da-unesco/