Iran is an airport strip compared to driving the South American "Death Roads."

My apology! I really thought the "get to/ get around" would be seprate and country more on the WHS itself.

wojtek
Lol. The altitude doesn't bother me (I'll go up slowly and will be in Arequipa for sure 2 days as well). Via that way roads must be better as well - I do not see any problems selfdriving that. Plus I hate busses as I need freedom.

it's the stretch Cuzco to Ayacucho to Lima that I wanted to check; this must be the most dangerous part. But I read that the 3N is more dangerous as the 3S. Many busses and private transfers also take that route.

Maybe. I had for example in Bolivia a private driver. But honestly, after doing that I thought why I had him as it was pretty straightforward. Ok he did know the route and places but these days with Google maps it's a lot easier as well to navigate.

I did part of that route several years ago, but only by bicycling. (Zoe is being a little hyperbolic, imho, ;-))

However, at Abancay, I diverted southwest to get to Nasca. The sections after Cusco were really beautiful, especially between Abancay and Puquio, which had an almost-new road at the time (2008). The section between Puquio and Nasca was an older locally-built road which was fine except for being constantly bumpy (but also a 3,000 m descent!) Whatever method you choose, it should be capable of 4,500 m passes, of course.

Have fun!

Zoe
Now you really scared me! D-: But this means that you did drive by yourself in Peru?

I also saw the possibility of doing part of the carretera de la muerte (even if in Colombia, I think) by bike and my impression was that it could be less scary then by car... maybe because you are smaller and have more space for maneuvering?

I have dropped google street view pins on the 3S road all the way from Cuzco to Abancay to Ayacucho to Huancavelica to Huancayo.
all what I see is paved road?
i thought mostly it would be unpaved. this really changed my opinion and now for sure will self drive.

Not a driver, so take my comments with a grain of salt...

Most roads I saw in Peru were perfectly fine. And not sure a Peruvian driver has better driving skills than a westerner. In any case, if you find one of the big bus companies (e.g. cruz de sol) running a big modern bus line on the same road, you should be fine. It's not like a bus has better 4wd or is more maneuverable than a good car.

Some arguments against driving yourself:
* Insurance / Liability. It's always a bit tricky to handle a foreign legal system. A driver would take care of that. Or your rental company.
* Distances. Peru is huge. Maps tend to skew the actual expanse of the place.
* Time. Follows from distances. Nazca => Arequipa is 10h. And I didn't see much reason to stop in between. Cusco => Ayacucho is 12h.
* Emptiness. There are plenty of empty spaces with zero light. If you plan to counter the distances by long driving, maybe reconsider. All buses run with multiple drivers.
* Speed. I don't think you will gain much speed by driving yourself. Several legs can be flown and are faster. Buses may run less frequently, but I doubt that a normal car can go much faster than the bus.

Finally I finished my itinerary for southern Peru. Keep in mind I'm driving it with my son and although he loves UNESCO we also just want an adventure. Also see nature in general; hopefully meet local life etc.
I have tried to make the itinerary by flying to Arequipe etc etc; but if you fly from Lima you also need time going to airport, waiting flight, possible delays etc etc. In the end, I would save maybe a day in total.

Day # Date Program
Day 0
Sleep Lima Fly to Lima
Day 1
Sleep Lima Lima visit
Day 2
Sleep Pisco Pickup rental car go to Pisco (3h drive) (Marriott Hotel) via Qhapaq Nan Pachacamac site (WHS)
Day 3
Sleep Pisco Day trip to Ica (1h drive) wineries (TWHS) and do Nasca (WHS) flight from here
Also trip to: Islas Ballestas from Pisco (TWHS Guano Islands).
Day 4
Sleep Nazca Pisco to Nazca (WHS) via Paleontological Sites of Pisco and Camana Basins (TWHS) 4h drive + sightseeing in Nazca
Day 5
Sleep Puerto Inko Nazca to Puerto Inko via The Coastal Lomas System of Peru: Private Conversation Area of Atiquipa (TWHS) which must be blooming in august and at the hotel Guano Islands, Islets, and Capes National Reserve System (TWHS) at Cape Atico.
Day 6
Sleep Arequipe Perto Inko to Arequipe (6h) via Archaeological Complex of Toro Muerto (TWHS) we also pass cape la chira (TWHS) maybe lunch.
Day 7
Sleep arequipe Visit Arequipe if not full day there is 2 wineries to taste wine.
Day 8
Sleep Puno Drive to Puno lake Titicaca (5h drive) see some Barock Temples (TWHS)
Day 9
Sleep Puno Lake Titicaca (TWHS) tour plus relax
Day 10
Sleep Cusco Drive to Cusco 6h (WHS) via some Rural Temples
Day 11
Sleep Cusco Cusco day
Day 12-13
Sleep at Machu Train to Machu (WHS) with hotel at Macchu
Day 14
Sleep Cusco Salt mines of Maras (TWHS) and drop the car (maybe change Machu to day 13-14 and drop car earlier)
Day 15
Sleep Lima Fly to Lima have time in Lima left.
Day 16 Fly to Amsterdam

Please comment :-)

No plans to go to Condor Canyon?


Liked the Bolivian side better. You should consider sleeping on the islands (furthest one out probably best, not the swimming ones).


Also Qhap Nan sites on the road.


Visit Pisac!!!


No such thing as Hotel at Macchu. Hotel is in aguascaliente. You need to decide if you want to go in the morning or the afternoon shift. That decides when to take the train.

If you go in the morning shift (Day 13), you need to take the last/evening train on Day 12 to Aguacalientes (boring town anyhow) and explore the Sacred Valley (Maras, Ollantaytambo, Moray) the day prior. With a car even more so.


I dont think you need this day. Also note that the train does not run from Cusco for the most part. Best entry (and start of the scenic tracks) is Ollantaytambo.

Enjoy

There is actually ----- the "Top dollar" Belmond Sanctuary Hotel, whose entrance is just outside the ruins themselves . 1 night next month in a "cheap" room, full board would cost you around $US1300.

See this for the benefits of staying - particularly the ability to get into the ruins when no one else is there - no concerns about trains or busses from/to Aguas Calientes.

When we first visited in 1973 it was relatively pricey even then when run by the Peruvian government and was known as the "Tourist hotel" or "the Hotel Ruinas". My diary of the visit, mentions, along with glowing memories of the ruins themselves, that we coughed up 30 soles for coffees on the terrace there (with "magnificent views") after our visit to the ruins at a time when we paid 50 Soles each to get in to Macchu Picchu itself and could get a cheap hotel in Cuzco for 100 a night (100 soles = £1!!!). We did NOT stay there!!!
By the time of our second visit in 1984 they had stopped the plebs from going in for coffee and opened a cafeteria for them! It was privatised in 1995 - and has no doubt received much investment since then.

Solivagant
exactly. and i plan to spend 1300 USD hard earned dollars and also taking the Belmond train from Cuzco there. Wopping 3000 USD total for 2 pax. BUT it's for my sons trip after his exams. We'll probably do homestays for the rest haha.

nfmungard
Condor canyon: i have a note about it but not sure how to plan it in...
lake titi, yeah I was in La Paz and visited the WHS there nearby but never made it to the lake itself. i'm not sure if i ever go back to La Paz so i must include it here.
Qhap Nan: yes also some on the road have to check which are interesting to see.
Pisac ok i check maybe the day with salt mines; i have 1 full day to drive outside of Cuzco

might have even 1 more day; had to add 2 days due to cheaper flights with KLM :-) under 1400 usd in business class from amsterdam. :-)

I wouldn't bother with Colca Canyon & Cruz del Condor. You can't really get a great view of the depth of the canyon and my sightings of condor were distant and fleeting. I've since had much better views in both Chile and Argentina. I regard the trip there and back as two days wasted that I could have spent better in Arequipa (I worry you haven't given the city enough time) and the Sacred Valley.

I also did Pisco to Puerto Inka via Islas Ballestas and a Nazca flight in just a single day rather than the three you have allotted, though I didn't attempt the other TWHS you have plotted in.

Absolutely support the recommendation for Pisac. It's wonderfully atmospheric (and, when I visited, eerily empty).

That's not really the case, unless they have a separate entry/different opening times. The first visitors from Aguacalientes by bus or on foot arrive on or before opening time. So I dont see how you get the ruins to yourself. Only option for that I am aware of is coming by hike as they have a different entry.

I am not sure that the 1.300 USD plus the expensive train would ever be worth it to me. The train starts to get nice after Ollaytantambo, no matter what train you use. And I would rather spend the day visiting the Sacred Valley on my way to Macchu Picchu than take the direct train from Cusco.

In any case, do as Clyde did and get two tickets (morning / evening). And really think about toilet management.


You can simply compare the bus stops for the buses connection Puno and Cusco. They hit the major sites along the road, specifically the pass, Andahuaylillas (must), Raqchi (Inca).


I think you need two days: Western Sacred Valley (Ollaytantambo, Maras, Moray, more). Northern Sacred Valley (Pisac) plus Templo de la Luna.


Good to know :D I was worried of having missed out.

As I do have more time now (my flights back to Amsterdam are 2 days later due to cheaper flights) I might add 1 day in Arequipe as safety (but drive there and not drive then Nazca to Arequipe in one shot and Toro Muerto as day trip from Arequipe), and for sure I'll have a day more in Cuzco / Sacred Valley. This will work out! I'm also looking if I can safe 1 day after pisco. but at the other hand I also want to have the first days easy after a 13 hour flight. So that I rest and catch up and rest of trip is easy going.


Good to know! tnx a lot.


Yes, I should have an additional day now! I was worried on this as well.


Colca Canyon for sure wasn't on my list. It's to far out and I'm not sure if that TWHS will inscribe; seems doubtfull to me.

tnx all for the tips. Working out my schedule in more detail still.