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Peru

 
 
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Author nfmungard
Partaker
#16 | Posted: 7 Jul 2017 15:53 
I like the stops you added to your trip. I will have to cut a few, though, as I really wanna see the missions in Bolivia and Potosi. What was your non WHS highlight that shouldn't be missed?

Kbecq:
Caral Supe (daytrip from Lima)

How did you go and how much did it cost?

Kbecq:
Day 4: Transfer to Nazca & flight Nazca lines

When did you book and how much did it cost?

I don't plan to hike the Inca Trail so that saves a little time.

Author Kbecq
Partaker
#17 | Posted: 7 Jul 2017 18:02 
nfmungard
For Caral the initial plan was to go with Mirabus which does day trips to Caral every Saturday departing from Kennedy Parc in Miraflores. The cost is PEN 240pp (approx. EUR 65) including a lunch, the entrance fee & a guide. However, as there were not enough people wanting to make the trip on the Saturday we wanted to go, the tour was cancelled. Since we had planned our Peru trip with the help of a local agency (incl. the Caral trip), the agency provided an alternative at their expense for the additional fee. So we ended up going in a small group (4 people) with Haku Tours (USD 165pp also incl. lunch, entrance fees, ...) instead of with Mirabus. From Lima it's a three hour drive to Caral (one way) and we were on site for about two hours.

For Nazca we booked the flight with Movilair which was USD 110pp. There are certainly less expensive options available, but we booked in advance to avoid having to wait for a long time at the airport.

Author tonylag
Partaker
#18 | Posted: 11 Jul 2017 17:14 
hi,

i am doing a group travel in South Peru: find the itinary here below:
https://www.sawadeereizen.be/rondreizen/midden-en-zuid-amerika/peru/per-de-mysterieuz e-erfenis-van-de-inca-s/uitgebreide-reisroute/

it is in Dutch, so if you need any help, you can ask for translation.

Author elsslots
Admin
#19 | Posted: 11 Jul 2017 23:12 
nfmungard:
Kbecq:
Day 4: Transfer to Nazca & flight Nazca lines

When did you book and how much did it cost?

I did stay at the Walk on Inn Hostel, and booked with them the night before after I arrived at 21.30 (95USD in 2011). The hostel though seems not exist anymore, but others may provide the same service.

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#20 | Posted: 28 Jul 2017 08:19 
Our connection Greatest Altitude Variations says PE-XP-40/CS-2011 is Santuario Arqueológico de Pachacamac. Our map positions the two apart (tentative site plus Qhapap Nan. Are these the same?

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#21 | Posted: 29 Jul 2017 01:27 | Edited by: Solivagant 
nfmungard:
Our map positions the two apart (tentative site plus Qhapap Nan. Are these the same?

My belief/understanding is
a. Our T List coordinates for Pachacamac are correct
b. We have correctly copied the UNESCO provided coordinates for PE-XP-40/CS-2011
c. Page 1862 of the Qapaq Nan Nomination file contains a map for PE-XP-40/CS-2011. That map shows PE-XP-40/CS-2011 to consist of 3 separate elements divided by main roads (the boundaries are shown by a red line) - if you look at the area on Google maps the 2 roads causing the division are clear - there is the main site of Pachacamac to the south and the "Humedales de Mamacona" Wetlands to the north of the "Antigua Panamericana" The Wetlands themselves are divided by a N/S highway. It would appear that the Humedales are considered a part of the site of Pachacamac.
d. BUT, the coordinates provided by UNESCO are actually in the built up area of Julio C Tello (Named after the Peruvian archaeologist who also has/had a palace at ChanChan named after him - see my review!). In the Qapaq Nan nomination file map for PE-XP-40/CS-2011 this suburb, including the chosen coordinates within it, is clearly outside all 3 of the "red line" bounded areas - and has the main site of Pachacamac to its south and the wetlands to its west and north. SO - the coordinates provided by UNESCO for PE-XP-40/CS-2011 are NOT INSIDE PE-XP-40/CS-2011 - and, in that sense are "incorrect".
e. HOWEVER (!!!!) the Qapac Nan map also shows a dotted yellow line from the centre of the Pachacamac site and then going north east THROUGH the suburb of Julio c Tello (i.e it goes both inside and OUTside the "red line" boundaries given for PE-XP-40/CS-2011!!) This dotted line is the route of the Qapaq Nan -this convention is used in all of the maps. I think you will find that the modern road of Avenida Julio Cesar Tello folows the route of the old Qapaq Nan as shown on the Nomination file map -SO the coordinates given inside the suburb are correct in showing one spot on the route of the Qapaq Nan! But quite why THAT spot should have been chosen isn't clear - is it a mistake which just happens to be on the route of the road or was it intended? Why wasn't a spot on the road INSIDE PE-XP-40/CS-2011 chosen? etc etc. The "Legend" accompanying the maps clearly states that the red line surrounds the "Nominated Property" (and even gives its area in Hectares to 2 decimal places!). But then it also says that the yellow dotted line is the Qapac Nan!
f. As we have commented before - the Qapaq Nan nomination file is an enormous "beast" which doesn't clearly explain the exact areas inscribed. For instance archaeological sites like Pachacamac are described as being "Associated with....." the Qapaq Nan. How many other Qapaq Nan coordinates have a similar "problem" I know not!

So - it is up to you - I would visit Pacahacamac thus picking up the T List and, whilst there ensure that I find the route of the yellow dotted line inside PE-XP-40/CS-2011 and then - possibly and ONLY if I had time and the inclination - try to follow the Qapaq Nan along the modern road in Julio Tello! It is a 1.6km walk from the Pachacamac Museum along the Panamericano and into Julio Tello to the Qapaq Nan locator!

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#22 | Posted: 2 Dec 2017 04:45 
Most of my visits in Peru have already been documented via reviews but short summary for the country here.

Itinerary:
* Arrival Friday Lima / Miraflores.
* Saturday Pachacamac as half day trip from Lima, some Lima
* Sunday Lima. Afternoon bus to Nazca. Arrival at 22:00h
* Monday Nazca. Morning flight around the lines. Hiked to the local sites (Cantalloc,Los Paradones, Telar). Afternoon bus Arequipa. Arrival after midnight.
* Tuesday Arequipa. Monasterio Santa Catalina is the highlight (agreeing with Els here). City is pleasant.
* Wednesday Morning Flight to Cuzco. Cuzco city center, Sacsayhuamán, Templo de la Luna / Qhapaq Nan.
* Thursday Cab to Ollantaytambo. Roundtrip Cab to Moray and the Salinas. Train to Aguas Calientes.
* Friday 4:30h queing for bus to Machu Picchu. Descent by after lunch. Some hiking in the valley. Night train back to Cusco.
* Saturday Cusco and Pisco.
* Sunday Bus from Cusco to Puno with multiple stops siteseeing stops along the way.
* Monday Lake Titicaca
* Tuesday Puno to Lima with stop in Copacabana (Bolivia) for Isla del Sol.

Optimizations and Options:
* If you have more time, I would probably spend more time in Arequipa and do the Canyons there (2-3 days).
* From Cusco you can go to Manu. A core zone tour will take 5 days and cost substantial amounts of money, though.
* With one or two days more I could have gone to Caral Supe. I decided to skip that as Caral Supe is a pretty natural stopping point when travelling North from Lima to Huaraz. Next time.

World Class:
* Machu Picchu: Obviously.
* Nasca: Very unique and weird. Worth the detour. Downside is that this is mostly a 30min experience.

Fine
* Arequipa: Pleasant, white colonial town. This is what I had expected Lima to be like. The monestario of Santa Catalina is outstanding and the highlight. The views of the surrounding mountains/volcanos are great, too.

Average
* Cusco: Some colonialism, some Inka remnants, plenty of tourists and tourist infrastructure. Good hub, especially for sites in the Sacred Valley, but the killer site is missing.

Underwhelming
* Lima: Destroyed by an earth quake when the Spanish empire was past its prime. It's distinct from other colonial sites as it's younger, so there is OUV. But it's not a great place. Reminded me of Santiago de Chile which also was destroyed by an earth quake. I would encourage you to venture off a bit from the city center so you can grasp that the city is built in the middle of the desert.

Unknown
* Qhapaq Nan: Really hard to get a grasp on the site. The little remnants I have seen of the Qhapap Nan were great.

TWHS:
* Titicaca: As you can tell from my review I wasn't too fond of the Peruvian side. Seeing that the Bolivian side meanwhile is outstanding and that both countries are submitting together as I understand it, this should and will be inscribed.
* Pachacamac: Not that much to see. Hard pressed why this would deserve inscription

Additional sites:
* Sacred Valley: The fortifications and city of Ollantaytambo, the terraces of Pisac and the Salineras of Maras each would warrant an inscription on their own. Moray, too, is very unique. And that's only the subset of sites I have seen. Alternatively, this could be combined into a VERY deserving serial site. This is a major omission from the list and I don't understand why Peru isn't pushing hard for this.
* Barroco Andino: I have only seen the splendid church of Andahuaylillas and supposedly there are more sites like this. Stellar and unique with the local influences. Again, I would heavily favor inscription of these churches. The artistic level is superior to the similar Popocatepl churches in Mexico.

Travel tips:
* Bring hand sanitizer.
* Be mindful of the heights. Puno is at 3800, Cusco at 3200. That's really something, especially if you have to sleep at the altitude.
* Food is great. Guinea Pig, though, not my favorite.
* Getting a SIM for a mobile phone was next to impossible for me as a foreigner.
* I felt safe for all of my trip. Some suburbs of Lima supposedly pose problems.

Author clyde
Partaker
#23 | Posted: 2 Dec 2017 07:13 
Thanks for the itinerary and reviews Nan. From what you've seen on the buses and in general, what are the road and driving conditions if you were to opt for a rental car with gps?

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#24 | Posted: 3 Dec 2017 03:22 | Edited by: nfmungard 
clyde

Driving should be fine apart from downtime Lima. Rush hour traffic is hell around there. Probably going into the suburbs yourself isn't that smart either. Get LDW.

A few general things to consider, though:
* Peru is large. Distances accordingly.
* The roads quite often are close to ravines without much in the way of protection. So drive carefully.
* Being this close to the Equator means it gets dark early most of the year. Combined with the previous points it may be safer to have someone with road knowledge do the trip as you will have to drive at night.
* I don't think there is a natural loop from Lima to Cusco and back. Not sure if you can get one way rentals. So the time you safe going one way may be added going back. Also, costs for cabs and busses are very low.

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#25 | Posted: 4 Dec 2017 06:18 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
nfmungard:
Peru is large. Distances accordingly.

I knew it was large but hadn't quite computed how big.
For us Europeans the distance from the coast after the Ecuadorian border to Lake Titicaca is about the same as Copenhagen to Istanbul! For those in the US it is Vancouver to Tijuana! (and that ignores the massive chunk of the country covered by the Amazon rainforest).

Heck even the WHS limited span of Chan Chan to Arequipa is equivalent to London- Zagreb/ Chicago- Dallas.

Thanks for these run downs Nan they are very useful when planning.

Author Kbecq
Partaker
#26 | Posted: 5 Dec 2017 14:17 
clyde
We went to Peru earlier this year and also had a look at rental cars. However, both car & fuel were quite expensive. Also, as already mentioned, Peru is a large country so you will be spending a lot of time in the car. This being said, the roads are good.

Author Assif
Partaker
#27 | Posted: 13 Feb 2018 15:46 
Here is a nice list I found. It suggests possible additions to the current Peruvian WHS and also lists the relevant OUV criteria.
https://listas.20minutos.es/lista/lugares-de-peru-que-podrian-o-deberian-ser-patrimon io-de-la-humanidad-411545/

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#28 | Posted: 23 Jul 2018 04:07 
i was looking into my 2018 travels and thought about peru (yet again). i had read before that rio abiseo is not open for visits, but ... you can find several operators who offer these tours (not sure if core zone though). and seemingly not that expensive either if you make it to the area. see https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Rio_Abiseo_National_Park.

what's your take?

Author Sjobe
Partaker
#29 | Posted: 23 Jul 2018 05:11 | Edited by: Sjobe 
nfmungard:
i had read before that rio abiseo is not open for visits, but ... you can find several operators who offer these tours

That is what I also found when I planned my trip to Peru this spring. I found several links and mentions how it is possible to visit the Rio Abiseo National Park. As it is mixed site, those are just for natural part of the park, river rafting and so on. I tried to find out if these tours are inside the core zone but the map on Unesco website is hard to interpret. What I have understood, Gran Pajaten and other archaeological sites within the national park are not possible to visit even though I found one comment that if you ask right person or operator they could take you wherever you want in the park. The other question is whether that would be responsible action for a WHS enthusiast.

Author watkinstravel
Partaker
#30 | Posted: 5 May 2019 02:20 
I know the discussion about Pachacamac and Qhapaq Nan is 2 years old now but nobody seems to have made reference to the Unesco sign. Maybe it wasn't there before? Anyway, it is right at the gate entrance to Pachacamac saying it is Qhapaq Nan PE-XP-40/CS-2011 Sanctuario Arqueologico de Pachacamac. It feels like Unesco wants us to count it :)

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