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Author elsslots
Admin
#46 | Posted: 25 Mar 2018 06:20 
Durian:
Els, i read articles about Lei Family,

good find!

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#47 | Posted: 4 Apr 2018 07:24 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Two nominations from China aiming for 2020. They are difficult to place, but at this point the city wall nomination seems more likely. Interestingly, both nominations have expanded to include additional serial components over the years.

- City Walls of the Ming and Qing Dynasties (China)
- The Ancient Waterfront Towns in the South of Yangtze River (China)

Author Solivagant
Partaker
#48 | Posted: 18 Jul 2018 05:39 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Open a new topic - "2035 WHC"!!!
China Daily reports "Beijing's historic north-south Zhongzhouxian, the central axis, is to apply for World Heritage status in 2035, the municipal administration of cultural heritage said Wednesday" .(July 4 2018.)!!!
No - it isn't a misprint. Elsewhere the article states "Fourteen historical places along the axis, including Qianmen, the Forbidden City, Jingshan Park, the Drum and Bell Towers, Chairman Mao Zedong Memorial Hall, the Monument to the People's Heroes and Tian'anmen Square have been identified as the key heritage sites. Preservation work of these sites should meet the requirements of the application by 2030"
So they have 5 "spare" years. See - http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201807/04/WS5b3cd6e5a3103349141e0b9a.html

This article considers in a more critical assessment what this might all mean for the area - e.g "The bricking up of stores and local shops around the Lama Temple and Jiaodaokou (with rumors that the area east of the Drum Tower may be next) appears to be the early phases of a plan which will radically transform Beijing's inner city from a lively and organic urban community into a sanitized reimagining of history, sponsored by Starbucks and Coco Tea" http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201807/04/WS5b3cd6e5a3103349141e0b9a.html

Which raises the issue of what areas any "Axis" nomination would encompass. How do those "14 historical places" fit together? This presentation (undated as far as I can see but certainly 2012 or later) appears to see the Axis as being rather wider than just the buildings directly along the main line but including areas on both sides as part of a "Historic Urban Landscape" (HUL). It lists the 14 monuments and also the "6 lakes". See map of the "Proposed Nominated Property" in - http://unesco.urbanismosevilla.org/unesco/sites/default/files/06.SunYan-Presentacion. pdf
It also begins to address the "complications" created by the "contemporary" architecture of the area - not only those which would be included e.g Chairman Mao's Mausoleum but also those outside but impacting the sight lines e.g the Opera House.
An issue it doesn't address is whether the Axis would extend the existing Forbidden City inscription rather than create an extra WHS (the latter would of course "help" China in its "battle of numbers" with Italy!)
Regarding the similar issue about the Temple of Heaven - although the map shows it located along the "Axis", the presentation would seem to indicate that it would remain as a separate WHC, albeit in the buffer zone of the Axis. This despite it being clearly historically and philosophically a part of the "Axis" (as demonstrated in the presentation!) - but China couldn't "lose" 2 of its WHS whilst gaining only 1 !!!

Finally - see this for UNESCO adopting the concept of "Historic Urban Landscape" (HUL) in Nov 2011 - https://whc.unesco.org/en/hul/
I can't say that I have noticed the concept coming up much since then - does anyone remember any examples??

Author Zoe
Partaker
#49 | Posted: 21 Jul 2018 13:22 
Setting a limit to visitors at Fangjinshan makes sense, but 23,480 is quite a steep number for any place. I suppose it could be reached during the national holidays. Imagine thousands of people streaming into the entrance gate for hours. Does the recommendation come for any reason or is the committee aware of China's general problem with tourist masses? Same could be said for many tourist sites in Thailand or Angkor Wat.

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#50 | Posted: 25 Jul 2018 05:32 
i think we are a bit short on chinese hotspots, especially considering the fabulous infrastructure (rail) they have.

Due a flight connection to Laos/Cambodia I am looking at Guangzhou at my base and was wondering was sites can be done as part of day trip from there? Macao, KAIPING DIAOLOU certainly. Probably also South China Karst and Kulangsu. Your thoughts?

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#51 | Posted: 25 Jul 2018 06:24 
nfmungard:
I am looking at Guangzhou at my base and was wondering was sites can be done as part of day trip from there?

I would be interested to know as well as a trip to Hong Kong is very much in our planning (Mrs Meltwaterfalls was born there so I owe it to her to visit).

Not sure what your visa situation is, but it may be worth checking if Macao would entail getting a multiple entry visa, which could add cost/ admin, it may be entirely fine but worth being aware of.

Author Khuft
Partaker
#52 | Posted: 25 Jul 2018 06:32 
nfmungard:
Kulangsu.

While you'll probably manage to get to Xiamen from Guangzhou as a one-day trip, it might be worth staying one day longer and doing Fujian Tulou as well. [Not sure if you can do the tulou as one-day trip from Guangzhou though].

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#53 | Posted: 25 Jul 2018 08:08 
meltwaterfalls:
Not sure what your visa situation is, but it may be worth checking if Macao would entail getting a multiple entry visa, which could add cost/ admin, it may be entirely fine but worth being aware of.

Reentry -> Probably twice as I would also go to Hong Kong for a day. Flights to Guangzhou are a lot cheaper so you may want to consider that yourself, although it entails the costly visa.

Khuft:
While you'll probably manage to get to Xiamen from Guangzhou as a one-day trip, it might be worth staying one day longer and doing Fujian Tulou as well.

Overnight in Xiamen seems fine option to tick off both. I still have to review my options and do a detailed time plan for Cambodia and Laos.

Author Zos
Partaker
#54 | Posted: 25 Jul 2018 09:16 | Edited by: Zos 
nfmungard
* South China Karst: Guilin - just 2.5 hours from Guangzhou but not advisable as a day trip.
* China Daxia: Danxiashan - Doable as day trip from Guangzhou, Guangzhou to Shaoguan is 1h by fast train and 2.5 hours if ordinary train. Take a bus from railway station to scenic area for 1h.
* Kaiping Diaolou - Very much doable as daytrip from Guangzhou. Take Bus in Guangzhou East to Kaiping YiCi (2-2.5 hours). Then take minivan to scenic area (less than 1 hour). There is a free shuttle bus between Li Garden (not part of WHS), Zili Village and Majianlong Village. Other inscribed areas needs separate transport.
* Macau - doable as day trip from Guangzhou (haven't personally done this though)
* Xiamen is not doable as day trip from Guangzhou. Fastest train is over 5 hours. Guangzhou cannot be a base for Fujian Tulou or Kulangsu.

Author Zos
Partaker
#55 | Posted: 25 Jul 2018 09:21 
Kunming can be an alternative. You can take day trip to Chengjiang Fossil Site and South China Karst: Shilin. To Shilin, there are direct shuttle bus from airport. To Chengjiang Fossil Site, take metro to Kunming South Bus Terminal then bus to Chengjiang County and you can hire a taxi from there.

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#56 | Posted: 25 Jul 2018 09:27 
@Zos: Thanks. Seems you just submitted new hotspots for China ;) Guangzhou just crossed the 4 sites threshold with Guilin, Daxi, Kaiping and Macao listed. With a day in Hong Kong and the TWHS in Guangzhou I think I have more than enough choices to fill my time there.

Guangzhou is just a stop over due to the cheap flights by the airline based there. So Kunming not an option.

Any other hotspots you can come up with?

Author Zos
Partaker
#57 | Posted: 25 Jul 2018 10:56 
nfmungard
Didn't propose Guangzhou hotspot before a I believe Guilin deserves more than a day trip. But yes, it is indeed a hotspot. Train tix to Guilin seems to sell fast on weekends as a lot of people goes there. So better reserve you tix days in advance or avoid weekend.

Another option is take the overnight train from Guangzhou to Xiamen so you can see either the Tulou or Kulangsu and take the other overnight train back to Guangzhou. I did only one way before.

I was rooting for Quanzhou to get inscribed as it would be a perfect center for Fujian hotspot.

Author Zoe
Partaker
#58 | Posted: 25 Jul 2018 15:05 
Even if the train to Guilin is fast it's ridiculous to plan it as a side trip. It takes a full day for the river cruise, then rent a bike in Yangshuo for another day, visit the "Elephant" rock in Guilin City etc is another day. And while you are there you can visit minority villages nearby too which are on the tentative list.

You would be wise to return to HK from Macao if you only have a single entry to China. There is nothing to do in Zhuhai but I did take the bus from Guangzhou and saw the Kaiping sites with locals taking me on motorbike rides.

Be careful to book the train tickets for the right station, Guangzhou is huge and it takes a while to reach them via metro, especially the south one.

The museum in Guangzhou can easily be reached by subway and should be a couple of hours to explore at the most..

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#59 | Posted: 25 Jul 2018 15:33 | Edited by: nfmungard 
Zoe:
Even if the train to Guilin is fast it's ridiculous to plan it as a side trip. It takes a full day for the river cruise, then rent a bike in Yangshuo for another day, visit the "Elephant" rock in Guilin City etc is another day. And while you are there you can visit minority villages nearby too which are on the tentative list.

Ridiculous is my middle name :D I still have to tinker around with my schedule. Plan is to leave for a night (2 days) from Guangzhou and get a bit out. I will look into what city to do. I also plan to get a multiple entry visa. (at least once for Hong Kong/Macao, preferably twice, so I can do both as a day trip while based in Guangzhou.

What is in Zuhai? Ah, Macao.

In the meantime read up on South China Karst and will go to Guangxi for two days then.

Author nfmungard
Partaker
#60 | Posted: 1 Aug 2018 10:06 
flights for china are booked.

Friday, 26. October 2018 Hongkong Plane 15:25
Arrival Hongkong. A bit of site seeing.

Saturday, 27. October 2018 Hongkong Macao Ferry Past 18:00
Day out in Hongkong siteseeing. Evening ferry to Macao.

Sunday, 28. October 2018 Macao Guilin Rail Past 14:00
Macao till lunch. Then border crossing into the main land (single entry visa required). Then fast train to Guilin to arrive for dinner.

Monday, 29. October 2018 Guilin Guangzhou Rail Past 20:00
Standard Ferry Ride in Guilin. Late afternoon/evening train back to Guangzhou.

Tuesday, 30. October 2018 Guangzhou Kaiping Diaolou
Excursion to Kaiping Diaolou

Wednesday, 31. October 2018 Guangzhou Hanoi Flight 16:25-17:35
Nearby.

Questions (probably for Zoe):

* Of the 4 sites in the hotspot, how would you rank them? I want to do the boat ride in Guijan (looks amazing), the towers look great, too. And even Danxia is interesting. Macao seems the least interesting.

* With the WHS focus in mind and Macao not seeming that great, I am even considering on skipping a bit on Hongkong. I could take an early afternoon ferry to Macao on Saturday (14:00h). I should be on site at 16:00h and could take a train to Guangzhou in the evening. This would give me the next day to see the Diolou and make it to Guilin in the evening. Is there any reason to extend my Hongkong stay?

* Can foreigners buy Chinese train tickets online?

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