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Author Colvin
Partaker
#391 | Posted: 5 Jun 2021 10:10 
winterkjm:
The United States and Germany have requested support (extension below) through the "Upstream Process"

So is Germany looking at putting forward Herrnhut (the center of the Moravian church) as an extension, or are they just looking at supporting the planned extension of the Danish site to the US?

I enjoyed my visit to Moravian Bethlehem, and think it would be a good transnational site, but I'd much rather see the US take on a natural site such as the California Current Conservation Complex as its next priority nomination.

Author hubert
Partaker
#392 | Posted: 5 Jun 2021 11:48 | Edited by: hubert 
Colvin:
So is Germany looking at putting forward Herrnhut (the center of the Moravian church) as an extension, or are they just looking at supporting the planned extension of the Danish site to the US?

The initiative apparently came from Bethlehem. According to this news, they wrote a letter to Herrnhut in March 2021 to suggest a transnational nomination. Gracehill in Northern Ireland would also be part of the nomination.

https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/sachsen/bautzen/goerlitz-weisswasser-zittau/welterbe-bewerbung-herrnhut-100.html

Germany is currently working on a revision of the T-list for 2024. But given the fact that Germany nominates at least one site every year - and does so very successfully - I guess it is unlikely that it will take the leading role here, although it would be logical, from the historical perspective.
On the other hand, I don't think it would have to compete with another US proposal. The US will certainly not nominate one site every year in the future. And one year more or less would not make a big difference for this transnational proposal.

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#393 | Posted: 28 Jul 2021 00:33 | Edited by: winterkjm 
A particularly lively discussion earlier this year about the OUV prospects of the U.S. Civil Rights Movement Sites nomination stuck with me. Since then, I visited 6 of 13 proposed components (Lincoln Memorial from a couple years earlier). If interested, view photos here, FLICKR Album. I will write a review in the coming week or so after collecting my thoughts. The history of these sites were further elaborated upon and supplemented with a visit to the "Legacy Museum" and The National Memorial for Peace and Justice in Montgomery, Alabama. In addition, I participated in a private tour of the 16th Street Baptist Church which provided further insight into the history of the church and the surrounding community. It was particularly important to me to read and listen to how non-American or immigrant/foreign-born visitors responded to these historic properties, both on this forum and also my fellow traveller (spouse).

Potential Components visited:
Atlanta, GA - Martin Luther King National Historic Park [Ebenezer Baptist Church]
Birmingham, AL - Birmingham Civil Rights National Monument [16th Street Baptist Church]
Montgomery, AL - National Historic Trail Selma To Montgomery [Dexter Avenue King Memorial Baptist Church]
Washington D.C. - National Mall and Memorial Parks [The Lincoln Memorial]
Selma, AL - National Historic Trail Selma To Montgomery [Edmund Pettus Bridge]
Topeka, KS - Brown v. Board of Education National Historic Site [Monroe School]

Potential Components not visited:
- Greyhound Bus Terminal and Bus Burning Site Anniston, Alabama
- Bethel Baptist Church Birmingham, Alabama
- Medgar and Myrlie Evers House Jackson, Mississippi
- Lorraine Motel Memphis, Tennessee
- Moton High School Farmville, Virginia
- Central High School Little Rock, Arkansas
- F. W. Woolworth Store Greensboro, North Carolina

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#394 | Posted: 28 Jul 2021 15:41 
winterkjm:
I will write a review in the coming week or so after collecting my thoughts.

I will be very interested to read that winterkjm.
It will be interesting to see how the debate around Gdansk go at this conference as several of the critisms of that propossal could be relevant to this one

Author vantcj1
Partaker
#395 | Posted: 29 Jul 2021 12:16 | Edited by: vantcj1 
winterkjm
I do also look forward to your review. Of course sites related with (relatively) recent historical processes are controversial. I've been following the discussion that has taken place regarding this particular TWHS, I didn't comment before due to lack of time.

In short, I do support this possible nomination. Of course sites associated only with criteria VI are discouraged, but of course there are already some in the list that got into throughout the years. To my eyes, the Civil Rights Movement in the U.S.A. provides a narrative that is of OUV, and that has had impact abroad, as many other countries have had to deal with their own skeletons in the closet regarding the treatment of the black population. In the case of Costa Rica, for example, our Afro Costa Rican population wasn't granted nationality until 1949. Discrimination in Latin America to this population is more subtle than before, but widespread, I have heard stories from countries -such ironically mainly black or mulatto, like Cuba or Panama- which really show how much is to be done.

Going back to this TWHS, site selection has to both consider the sites related to positive moments of the Civil Rights movement, and also dark moments such as Greyhound Bus Terminal, Medgar and Myrlie Evers House, Edmund Pettus Bridge, etc., as not doing so would mean only a partial narrative is told, one not considering the enormous resistance from most whites to the advancement of civil rights and which considers that everything has been achieved, while the reality is that this process is not over, as the desired equality of opportunities has not been totally achieved and black population is terribly profiled by the police, in employment, is highly incarcerated, etc.

Author Colvin
Partaker
#396 | Posted: 21 Aug 2021 11:24 
Nice review of Hopewell Ceremonial Earthworks, winterkjm! When you were at Newark Earthworks, did anyone there have any idea when they expect the Ohio Supreme Court to make its ruling on the country club lease where the Octagon Earthworks is located?

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#397 | Posted: 21 Aug 2021 13:54 
When discussing the issue with park rangers/staff, the general consensus was that if the nomination fails it will most likely relate to complications around the Octagon Earthworks in Newark. Earthwork sites like Cahokia and Poverty Point are not too difficult to comprehend OUV (interpretation and on-site programing really helps visitors see their value). The same is true in my opinion for the Hopewell Culture Earthworks, but whereas Cahokia and Poverty Point are single locations (though there are identified lesser satellite sites), Hopewell is a series of components which all contribute to its OUV and they are spread around in clusters. I would not be surprised if ICOMOS defers the nomination just over the issue of the Octagon Earthworks.

Author Colvin
Partaker
#398 | Posted: 21 Aug 2021 22:40 
winterkjm:
When discussing the issue with park rangers/staff, the general consensus was that if the nomination fails it will most likely relate to complications around the Octagon Earthworks in Newark.

I've read similar, which is why I'm curious to see what the court ruling will be. Incidentally, if by any chance there are site members who live close enough or want to make the trip to Ohio, the Octagon Earthworks will have an open house on 17 October 2021.

[Background for those unfamiliar with the Hopewell Ceremonial Mounds nomination: the Octagon Earthworks is considered to be an integral component of the nomination, but it is on the grounds of a country club which limits access to the earthworks. The Ohio History Connection owns the land where the country club is located, and is seeking eminent domain to end the lease that the country club has on the land. This case was presented before the Ohio Supreme Court in April 2021.]

Author Messy
Partaker
#399 | Posted: 25 Aug 2021 08:18 
There was a call for discussion by the interior department as to the extension to the civil rights trail last January. has anyone heard about whether or not it was agreed to?

Author Colvin
Partaker
#400 | Posted: 28 Aug 2021 20:20 
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the Civil Rights Movement sites, winterkjm. One of these days I hope to make it down to Alabama to see several of the proposed components. I'll be very curious to see how this nomination develops.

Author meltwaterfalls
Partaker
#401 | Posted: 30 Aug 2021 18:30 
Winterkjm, I will echo Colvin's words of thanks for the thorough rundown and expansion on the less obvious parts of the Civil Rights nomination. The framing of your wife's views was also really helpful.

It will be interesting to see how the discussion about Gdańsk's proposal will progress, as I can see a lot similar issues relating to OUV being derived from political events that happened in a place rather than their intrinsic built values. Though it was very interesting to read about the segregation architecture of Birmingham, perhaps that provides a more tangible way forward, drawing from a site like Trebic?

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#402 | Posted: 30 Aug 2021 19:14 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Generally, I felt my wife's views were more initially aligned with these sites being of national importance and not international value. Perhaps, this is a natural inclination because most countries have went through various political movements. This is the challenge for ICOMOS, what merits distinction? Which "freedom movement" gets recognition and how is OUV demonstrated?

One notable difference in the United States is that a marginalized community (African-Americans), roughly 15% of the American population, were able to change the national conscience to some degree (debatable how far), to enact Civil Rights legislation and the dismantling of racialized-segregation infrastructure. Though it should be noted, public manifestations of racialized segregation may have been dismantled, residential areas in many cities and communities of the United States remain stubbornly segregated.

I know very little about Gdańsk, so I cannot offer any objective perceptions about its OUV in comparison to the Civil Rights Movement Sites, or other sites for that matter. Besides the obvious criterion vi, the Civil Rights Movement nomination will pursue criterion ii as well. This may provide the "angle" for the nomination that goes beyond "intangible" value of association with historic events.

meltwaterfalls:
Though it was very interesting to read about the segregation architecture of Birmingham, perhaps that provides a more tangible way forward

CRITERION (ii): The Interchange of Ideas:
"To exhibit an important interchange of human values, over a span of time or within a cultural area of the world, on developments in architecture or technology, monumental arts, town-planning or landscape design."

"The history of the civil rights movement sites as legally segregated by race prior to the events with which they are associated underscores how the property itself inspired an interchange of ideas surrounding civil disobedience campaigns undertaken to alter the built environment of the southeastern United States by removing these structural divisions. Examples of anti-colonial passive resistance against racial proscriptions in India and Africa convinced African American leaders of the value of nonviolent protest designed to physically transform society. By virtue of becoming racially desegregated, the physical assets of the nominated property relate to the interchange of ideas regarding nonviolent protest undertaken to force tangible changes in the built environment while also gaining such intangible ideals as freedom, democracy, and equality. Previously the racially segregated architecture, town-planning, and landscape design reinforced legal white supremacy, but little evidence of that remains—except in some cases as shadows in renovated buildings—while instead tangible evidence of the transformed property is manifested through desegregation, the removal of structural impediments to space now open to all people regardless of race, color, religion, sex or national origin." U.S. CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT SITES A POTENTIAL SERIAL NOMINATION FOR WORLD HERITAGE

Thanks for the kind comments. I hope my review provides some useful information for future visitors and also introduces some of the context of the serial nomination that might lead toward an inscription.

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#403 | Posted: 1 Sep 2021 05:37 | Edited by: winterkjm 
In our discussions around "top missing" in the United States, we often diverged over highlights and gaps when discussing potential cultural sites. During the past few years, I have been taking note and visiting sites detailed in the original "long list" of sites considered in 2008 and the U.S. Gap Study Report that informed the U.S. Tentative List update in 2017. Moreover, with the "top missing" exercise, further sites came to my attention. While it may be a good deal of time before further tentative nominations are approved by the Department of the Interior, it's always interesting (at least to me) to discuss and consider what potential candidates may emerge. All sites listed here are mentioned in some format in the U.S. World Heritage Gap Study Report which was created in 2016.

Industrial Complexes
- Sloss Furnaces National Historic Landmark
- Lowell National Historic Park

National Parks (Cultural Landscape)
- Parkitecture: National Park Rustic (*Emphasis in U.S. Gap Study Report on concept of National Parks, including early parks)

Modernist Architecture
- Case Study Houses in Los Angeles
- Spread of International Style Modernism to the United States (*Ludwig mies van der rohe is mentioned prominently in the U.S. Gaps Study Report)

Author winterkjm
Partaker
#404 | Posted: 11 Sep 2021 18:41 | Edited by: winterkjm 
From June 5th to August 1st, my spouse and I completed a 58 day road trip of the United States. Originally, we planned to include a good amount of Canada, but the border remained closed until only recently. Part of my goal was to complete the remaining Continental U.S. world heritage sites and visit the most probable future tentative nominations. In addition, we sought to cover most of the remaining states and national parks that we had not yet explored. Travelling to 35 different states and stopping at cultural/natural sites in each of them, required a good deal of time and with two whole months our trip never felt too rushed. Driving nearly 12,000 miles (19,000 kilometers) required precise planning because of COVID and a busy Summer travel season. For every single accommodation, we booked far in advance and numerous tickets to cultural sites like Fallingwater and Monticello had to be pre-booked as well. In busier National Parks like Glacier, Yellowstone, Acadia, Arches, and Great Smoky Mountains we began all hikes between 5:45am and 6:45am and usually finished by noon, then we rested/ate and continued exploring between 4pm and 9pm. This worked perfectly and for the most part we avoided many issues with crowds and parking issues. We allotted 2 nights for Glacier, 3 nights for Yellowstone (all inside the park), 2 nights for Acadia, and 2 nights for Great Smoky Mountains. This ensured we had plenty of time to take our time and avoid exploring during the peak times. So technically having 4 days to visit Yellowstone (all weekdays) proved just enough to cover all the major features of the park!

Besides the world heritage related stops, there were plenty of additional places such as National Monuments or National Historic Parks that we visited. Many of these were mentioned in our Top Missing discussions or the US Gap Study Report. Only a few places we planned could not be accessed. Crater Lake National Park had to be cancelled because of a snowstorm. I also scrapped plans to visit the Dayton Aviation Sites because the time spent there would restrict our ability to better explore the Hopewell components.



World Heritage Sites (6)
1. Waterton Glacier International Peace Park (Glacier National Park)
2. Yellowstone National Park
3. Fallingwater (final unvisited FLW component)
4. Monticello and the University of Virginia in Charlottesville
5. Great Smoky Mountains National Park
6. Monumental Earthworks of Poverty Point

Tentative Nominations (5)
1. Hopewell Ceremonial Earthworks
2. Moravian Church Settlements
3. Ellis Island (revisit for additional pictures from Liberty State Park in New Jersey)
4. Thomas Jefferson Buildings (Poplar Forest)
5. Civil Rights Movement Sites (sites in Georgia, Alabama, and Kansas)

National Parks (non-WHS)
- Theodore Roosevelt National Park (ND)
- Indiana Dunes National Park (IN)
- Cuyahoga Valley National Park (OH)
- Acadia National Park (ME)
- Shenandoah National Park (VA)
- Hot Springs National Park (AK)
- Arches National Park (UT)
- Capitol Reef National Park (UT)
- Bryce Canyon National Park (UT)

*I believe (like several others in this forum) that many National Parks in the US could demonstrate OUV, but as their protections are already sufficient and the NPS is concerned about visitor numbers, a world heritage nomination is not viewed as beneficial or worth the effort/costs.

I visited some representative examples International Modernism (album linked) that may be included in a future tentative nomination. I planned to visit Farnsworth House in Illinois, but because of a rainstorm, there was a bit of flood damage that led to all tours being cancelled. Ludwig Mies van der Rohe related properties and other examples of modernism were certainly part of the discussion for "Top Missing" sites in the US.

- Lake Shore Drive Apartments (IL)
- Gropius House (MA)
- PSFS Building (PA)


We visited Bartram's Garden, which has been mentioned as a potential transnational component related to "The Rise of Systematic Biology". I suppose such a nomination may emerge in years to come, but having only visited one other location, The Linnaeus Garden & Museum in Uppsala Sweden, I largely fail to see its potential OUV.

Author Colvin
Partaker
#405 | Posted: 11 Sep 2021 23:23 
That is an epic adventure! Looks like an awesome trip. As an aside, were you also visiting some state capitols along the way? Hope you get to find a way to incorporate these travels into your teaching!

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