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Top 50 missing - 2014 version

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Author winterkjm
Registered
#16 | Posted: 30 Dec 2013 18:37 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Summary (So Far..)

Tentative Sites (Candidate for Top 50 Missing)

France - La Grotte ornée Chauvet-Pont d'Arc (29/06/2007)
Israel - Triple-arch Gate at Dan & Sources of the Jordan (30/06/2000)
Italy - Scrovegni's Chapel (01/06/2006)
Laos- Sites Mégalithiques de la province de Xieng Khouang (25/03/1992)
Lebanon - Ensemble du site naturel de la région du Chouf avec les monuments et les sites archéologiques qui s'y trouvent (01/07/1996)
Myanmar - Wooden Monasteries of Konbaung Period: Ohn Don, Sala, Pakhangyi, Pakhannge, Legaing, Sagu, Shwe-Kyaung (Mandalay) (04/10/1996)
Philippines - El Nido-Taytay Managed Resource Protected Area (16/05/2006)
South Korea - Southwestern Coast Tidal Flats (11/01/2010)
United States - Petrified Forest National Park (30/01/2008)

New Suggestions (Candidate for Top 50 Missing)

France - Drift Passes of Rangiroa, French Polynesia
India - Chhatris (cenotaphs) of Orchha
Germany - Tempelhof Airport, Berlin
Peru - Huaca de la Luna and Huaca del Sol
Serbia - Synagogue of Subotica
Spain - Guggenheim Museum Bilbao, Frank Gehry
Somalia - Laas Gaal
United States - Mount Rushmore
United States - First skyscapers of the Chicago School of Architecture

I did not include Bolgar or Maymand because ICOMOS did not recognize their OUV. Some of the Myanmar suggestions were already part of the Top 50 Missing.

Europe and North America - 10
Asia and the Pacific- 5
Latin America and the Caribbean - 1
Arab States - 1
Africa - 1

Cultural: 14
Natural: 4

Author winterkjm
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#17 | Posted: 31 Dec 2013 02:45 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Solivagant:
Interesting List!
I particularly liked
a. Naica
b. Laas Gaal
c. Uyuni

Jonathanf and Solivagant were discussing 3 fascinating sites.

I would certainly second including Laas Gaal (Somalia) for consideration in the Top 50 Missing.

Author meltwaterfalls
Registered
#18 | Posted: 31 Dec 2013 14:27 
hubert:
Tempelhof Airport, Berlin
First skyscapers of the Chicago School of Architecture
Guggenheim Museum Bilbao, Frank Gehry

Alternatively I would suggest:
Millau Viaduct, Norman Foster
Jewish Museum Berlin, Daniel Libeskind
Centre Pompidou, Renzo Piano
Santiago Calatrava (my personal favourite among modern architects): City of Arts and Sciences in Valencia or TGV Railway Station in Liège

Yep I would put my support behind these, and the projects picked out for the last 30 years are those that I would pick out. I also have a big soft spot for Calatrava and think that the City of Arts and Sciences really would be my choice, I'm not sure how well it has fared in the last few years since my visit though.

Author winterkjm
Registered
#19 | Posted: 31 Dec 2013 15:48 | Edited by: winterkjm 
meltwaterfalls:
Millau Viaduct, Norman Foster
Jewish Museum Berlin, Daniel Libeskind
Centre Pompidou, Renzo Piano
Santiago Calatrava (my personal favourite among modern architects): City of Arts and Sciences in Valencia or TGV Railway Station in Liège

Are any of these deserving of Top 50 missing? I'm sure some deserve inscription, but I'm not sure about top 50. Yet, I cannot judge from personal experience, since I've never visited these sites? Thoughts?

Are we not making an unbalanced list here?

I know I am tempted to nominate every possible "deserving" site in the United States (since I'm American). Likewise, since many on this forum are from Europe it is difficult not to suggest the fantastic places that perhaps deserve inscription. However, there are several countries with 0 inscriptions and regions that are vastly under-represented.

Natural sites?
Africa?
Latin America?
Arab States?

Author Assif
Registered
#20 | Posted: 31 Dec 2013 18:45 | Edited by: Assif 
winterkjm:
However, there are several countries with 0 inscriptions and regions that are vastly under-represented.

I think it is worthwhile to consider the gaps when constructing the 50 top missing list as I previously suggested. So far there has been no follow-up here, so I would like to make some suggestions to be trimmed later on in the process. I will base them also taking into consideration which gaps I personally hold to be closed http://www.worldheritagesite.org/forums/index.php?action=vthread&forum=4&topic=1692&p age=4

1) Hacienda Chuao (Venezuela)
2) Agricultural Landscape of the Midwest (USA)
3) Korowai tree houses (PNG)
4) Ford factory (USA)
5) Universal Studios CL (USA)
6) Trans-Siberian Railway (Russia)
7) Kennedy Space Centre (USA)
8) Chernobyl (Ukraine)
9) Mecca (Saudi Arabia)
10) Schum cities (Germany)
11) Golden Gate Bridge (USA)
12) Chicago School of architecture (USA)
13) Miami Art Deco (USA)
14) Watts Tower (USA)
15) Munich Olympic Stadium (Germany)
16) Tempelhof (Germany)
17) Moscow undergound (Russia)
18) Guggenheim Bilbao (Spain)
19) Jordell Bank Observatory (UK)
20) Babylon (Iraq)
21) Ur (Iraq)
22) Ninveh (Iraq)
23) Nimrud (Iraq)
24) Abydos (Egypt)
25) Siwa (Egypt)
26) Bursa (Turkey)
27) Konya (Turkey)
28) Lycian cities (Turkey)
29) Gobeklitepe (Turkey)
30) Ahlat (Turkey)
31) Silk Road
32) Nan Madol (Micronesia)
33) Marae (France)
34) Lapita sites (Samoa)
35) Sites of Lunda and Luba empires (Rep Congo)
36) Huaca del Sol (Peru)
37) Kuhikugu (Brazil)
38) Monte Verde (Chile)
39) Ciudad Perdida (Colombia)
40) Guyalbo (Costa Rica)
41) San Lorenzo de Tenochtitlan (Mexico)
42) Caguana (USA)
43) Oxford and Cambrdige (UK)
44) the Kibbutz (Israel)
45) Civil Rights Movement (USA)
46) Nuremberg Trials room (Germany)
47) Ellis Island (USA)
48) Qapaq Nan
49) Hangar Y (France)
50) Gobi Desert (Mongolia and China)
51) Svalbard (Norway)
52) Andaman (India)
53) Benguella Current (South-West Africa)
54) Fiji marine (Fiji)
55) Karoo Desert (SA and Namibia)
56) Maldives and Chagos atolls (Maldives and UK)
57) New Caledonia forests (France)
58) Red Sea (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Eritrea)
59) Sudd-Sahelian savanna (Cameroon, Chad, Ethiopia, Mali, Niger, Nigeria, Sudan, Uganda and South Sudan)
60) Tahiti natural reserves (France)
61) Volga and Lena river deltas (Russia)
62) Okavango (Botswana)
63) Eastern Arc Mts (Tanzania)
64) Atlas Mts (Morocco)
65) tropical mangroves of Kenya, Mozambique and Tanzania
66) Somali-Maasai savanna (Somalia, Kenya)
67) Sub-tropical forests of Cambodia
68) shrubland of the southern Caucasus (Armenia)
69) shrubland and savannahs of Southwest Australia (Australia)
70) rainforests of Polynesia and Micronesia (France, Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, USA and Micronesia)
71) mangroves of Eastern Papua and Northern Australia (PNG and Australia)
72) Californian shrub (USA and Mexico)
73) rainforests of Southern Chile (Chile)
74) Miskito Coast (Nicaragua)
75) temperate forests and shrubland of Central Chile (Chile)
76) grasslands of Falklands and Tierra del Fuego (Argentina, Chile and UK)
77) tropical Andes (Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Colombia)
78) coastal deserts of Chile and Peru
79) South Georgia (UK)
80) maquis (Spain, Portugal, France and Italy)
82) montado of Portugal and Spain
83) Chicxulub (Mexico)
84) Colorado Plateau (USA)

Author winterkjm
Registered
#21 | Posted: 31 Dec 2013 21:33 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Because this is very long list, I will focus on the United States.

Natural

Colorado Plateau (USA) Petrified Forest National Park (TWHS), Zion National Park, Vermilion Cliffs National Monument (among several other national parks, national monuments)

Californian Shrub (USA) Big Sur, Channel Islands National Park, Carrizo Plain National Monument

Rainforests of Polynesia and Micronesia (USA) Fagatele Bay National Marine Sanctuary (TWHS) (American Samoa)

Cultural

Caguana Ceremonial Ball Courts Site (Puerto Rico)
Ford River Rouge Complex (MI)
Civil Rights Movement Sites (TWHS) (AL, GA)
Chicago School of Architecture (IL)
Ellis Island (NY)
Miami Art Deco (FL)
Watts Towers (CA)
Kennedy Space Centre (FL) (outlier NASA sites may be included in CA, TX, & AL)
Hollywood Studios & Movie Palaces (CA)
Agricultural Landscape of the Midwest (?????)

These potential "missing" sites are certainly worthy of consideration. But as far as Top 50 Missing?

Perhaps?

Petrified Forest
Big Sur
Caguana


Ford and NASA offer tours of their historic properties, but because of the active use of both facilities a world heritage nomination is highly unlikely. Therefore, these 3 sites are based on quality, but also realistic chances of the nomination reaching any fruition.

Author Assif
Registered
#22 | Posted: 1 Jan 2014 01:51 
winterkjm:
Ford and NASA offer tours of their historic properties, but because of the active use of both facilities a world heritage nomination is highly unlikely.


I do not see why it should not be possible to nominate only the historic parts that are not operative. This is also true of Universal Studios.
Personally I think that these three cultural sites (plus Golden Gate Bridge and Chicago School of Architecture) are all top 50 material. They are iconic, historically significant, still influential, representative of missing categories and even viable.

Author Assif
Registered
#23 | Posted: 1 Jan 2014 01:59 | Edited by: Assif 
My personal favourites from my long list are still make up a long list. This is even without iconic non gap filling sites such as Giotto's Capella degli Scrovegni.

3) Korowai tree houses (PNG)
4) Ford factory (USA)
5) Universal Studios CL (USA)
6) Trans-Siberian Railway (Russia)
7) Kennedy Space Centre (USA)
8) Chernobyl (Ukraine)
9) Mecca (Saudi Arabia)
11) Golden Gate Bridge (USA)
12) Chicago School of architecture (USA)
15) Munich Olympic Stadium (Germany)
16) Tempelhof (Germany)
17) Moscow undergound (Russia)
18) Guggenheim Bilbao (Spain)
19) Jordell Bank Observatory (UK)
20) Babylon (Iraq)
22) Ninveh (Iraq)
24) Abydos (Egypt)
29) Gobeklitepe (Turkey)
31) Silk Road
32) Nan Madol (Micronesia)
33) Marae (France)
35) Sites of Lunda and Luba empires (Rep Congo)
36) Huaca del Sol (Peru)
37) Kuhikugu (Brazil)
38) Monte Verde (Chile)
39) Ciudad Perdida (Colombia)
40) Guyalbo (Costa Rica)
41) San Lorenzo de Tenochtitlan (Mexico)
42) Caguana (USA)
43) Oxford and Cambrdige (UK)
44) the Kibbutz (Israel)
45) Civil Rights Movement (USA)
46) Nuremberg Trials room (Germany)
48) Qapaq Nan
49) Hangar Y (France)
50) Gobi Desert (Mongolia and China)
51) Svalbard (Norway)
52) Andaman (India)
53) Benguella Current (South-West Africa)
54) Fiji marine (Fiji)
55) Karoo Desert (SA and Namibia)
56) Maldives and Chagos atolls (Maldives and UK)
57) New Caledonia forests (France)
58) Red Sea (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Eritrea)
59) Sudd-Sahelian savanna (Cameroon, Chad, Ethiopia, Mali, Niger, Nigeria, Sudan, Uganda and South Sudan)
60) Tahiti natural reserves (France)
61) Volga and Lena river deltas (Russia)
62) Okavango (Botswana)
63) Eastern Arc Mts (Tanzania)
64) Atlas Mts (Morocco)
65) tropical mangroves of Kenya, Mozambique and Tanzania
66) Somali-Maasai savanna (Somalia, Kenya)
67) Sub-tropical forests of Cambodia
68) shrubland of the southern Caucasus (Armenia)
69) shrubland and savannahs of Southwest Australia (Australia)
70) rainforests of Polynesia and Micronesia (France, Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, USA and Micronesia)
71) mangroves of Eastern Papua and Northern Australia (PNG and Australia)
72) Californian shrub (USA and Mexico)
73) rainforests of Southern Chile (Chile)
74) Miskito Coast (Nicaragua)
75) temperate forests and shrubland of Central Chile (Chile)
77) tropical Andes (Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Colombia)
78) coastal deserts of Chile and Peru
79) South Georgia (UK)
83) Chicxulub (Mexico)
84) Colorado Plateau (USA)

Author Solivagant
Registered
#24 | Posted: 1 Jan 2014 03:40 | Edited by: Solivagant 
I have just carried out a quick comparison of the jonathanfr "91 List" with the Assif "84 list" - both very intersting lists by the way .......

And found just 8 sites which were common across the 2 lists. There may be the odd extra one as Assif has often just listed a large geographical/natural area from the IUCN "gap list" without specifying a particular site whereas jonaothonfr has been specific - but I didn't immediately notice any of the second as being inside the first.

Golden Gate Bridge, Mecca, Okavango **, Babylon, Ur, Chicxulub, Qapac Nan**, Silk Road**

And, of these 8, 3 ("**") are candidates in 2014. And only Golden Gate Bridge and Mecca are NOT on a current T List

Beyond this there are of course the sites put forward by other Forum "members" which aren't on either of the above 2 lists!

Author Khuft
Registered
#25 | Posted: 1 Jan 2014 09:06 
Assif:
41) Tenochtitlan (Mexico)


Is Tenochtitlan not included as part of Mexico City (at least the few remains that still exist of it)? The Advisory Body evaluation mentions that the site includes "the archaeological site of the Templo Mayor".

In general, your list is very interesting indeed. To get back to your previous comment:

Assif:
I think it is worthwhile to consider the gaps when constructing the 50 top missing list as I previously suggested. So far there has been no follow-up here


In my opinion the selection of the Top 50 missing sites does not necessary have to comply with the identified gaps. For me, Top 50 refers to the most iconic sites that we consider still missing, irrespective of where they are located, and keeping in mind that many many more may be deserving of WHS. Therefore, even though Italy already has a large amount of sites, Capella Scrovegni could be considered so iconic that it still deserves a slot on the top 50 missing sites list.
But of course that's just a personal opinion.

Author Assif
Registered
#26 | Posted: 1 Jan 2014 15:03 
Khuft:
Is Tenochtitlan not included as part of Mexico City (at least the few remains that still exist of it)?

You are right, Khuft, it is. I was unclear. I didn't mean Mexico City but San Lorenzo de Tenochtitlan, which is the most iconic Olmec site. I have now changed that above to avoid misunderstandings.

Khuft:
In my opinion the selection of the Top 50 missing sites does not necessary have to comply with the identified gaps.

I actually agree. I would personally add Giotto's Capella degli Scrovegni to the top missing. However, I do think that the missing categories could help us find out more sites that are both iconic and missing.

Author Assif
Registered
#27 | Posted: 1 Jan 2014 15:18 
Solivagant:
There may be the odd extra one

Petrified Forest NP is within the Colorado Plateau.

Solivagant:
Beyond this there are of course the sites put forward by other Forum "members" which aren't on either of the above 2 lists!

There are even some suggestions I made. My current list is only of sites that are iconic and fill existing gaps. Some iconic sites (Jericho, Bagan, Kuelab) do not fill up existing gaps.

Solivagant:
Assif has often just listed a large geographical/natural area from the IUCN "gap list"

True. Often it is immaterial which national park within that area gets inscribed as long as it offers good preservation. For the sake of gross habitats recognised by IUCN minute differences do not really play a role. The cultural distinctions in the ICOMOS gaps report are more fine grained.

Author winterkjm
Registered
#28 | Posted: 1 Jan 2014 15:26 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Assif:
Personally I think that these three cultural sites (plus Golden Gate Bridge and Chicago School of Architecture) are all top 50 material. They are iconic, historically significant, still influential, representative of missing categories and even viable.

Golden Gate Bridge (CA)
Hollywood Studios & Movie Palaces (CA)
Ford River Rouge Complex (MI)
NASA Sites (FL, CA, AL, TX)
Chicago School of Architecture (IL)

I do believe all 5 of these suggestions deserve world heritage status. Yet, should we consider realistic chances of a nomination, and the logic for the United States to develop one? Are all 5 indeed Top 50?

Golden Gate Bridge - Already has problems with traffic and large amounts of visitors. Secondly, it has NOT been designated as nationally significant. So it can not yet even progress as a candidate until it is either designated as a National Monument or National Historic Landmark.

Ford River Rouge Complex - There are tours that visit the site, and in 2013 there were several articles that stated the complex may seek a place on the US tentative list. However, challenges remain. Much of the River Rouge Complex has changed over the years, and with so much still in operation, it is unclear how this nomination may progress.

NASA Sites - Kennedy Space Center, Johnson Space Center, Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Goldstone Deep Space Communications Complex, Marshall Space Flight Center all have nationally significant properties. Should a NASA proposal be a serial nomination of sites in Florida, Alabama, Texas, and California or just the Kennedy Space Center? Should a transnational nomination be considered with Russia? Nevertheless, certainly of OUV.

Chicago School of Architecture - All of the buildings that make up this proposal were on the previous US tentative list as individual nominations. It is unclear if any of these nominations were ever actively considered or pursued. Worthy nomination, but complicated. As each building is likely owned by different entities making the nomination process difficult.

Hollywood Studios & Movie Palaces - There is no way that Universal Studios (back lot?) alone deserves world heritage inscription, let alone top 50. There would have to be a serial nomination of the best preserved studio lots. Secondly, including the Movie Palaces that were built in the 1920's and 30's would be ideal. As these studios produced the first major motion pictures, the first grand movie theaters were born. Million Dollar Theater - The Orpheum - Los Angeles Theatre - Paramount Theatre are all magnificent.

So Assif, in your view are: Petrified Forest, Big Sur, Caguana not Top 50 Missing? They certainly fill in gaps, but may not be top 50, thoughts?

Are there any major natural sites in the US you feel may be Top 50 missing?

Author Assif
Registered
#29 | Posted: 1 Jan 2014 16:46 
winterkjm:
So Assif, in your view are: Petrified Forest, Big Sur, Caguana not Top 50 Missing? They certainly fill in gaps, but may not be top 50, thoughts?


I did not relate to these three and did not say they were no top 50 missing.
Caguana fills a gap but other more major Precolumbian sites might need to precede it.
Petrified Forest is a gap filler both as a climatic zone and geologically. I would consider it top 50.
Don't know enough about Big Sur.
winterkjm:
Fagatele Bay National Marine Sanctuary (TWHS)

This is a marine sanctuary and not a Polynesian rainforest as can be found in Hawaii for example.

Author winterkjm
Registered
#30 | Posted: 1 Jan 2014 18:26 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Summary (So Far..)
- NOT including previous Top 50

Tentative Sites (Candidate for Top 50 Missing)

Botswana - Okavango Delta (27/05/2010)
China (Kygyzstan/Kazakstan) - Silk Roads (28/03/2008)
China - The Grand Canal (28/03/2008)
France - La Grotte ornée Chauvet-Pont d'Arc (29/06/2007)
Iraq - The Sacred Complex of Babylon (29/10/2003)
Israel - Triple-arch Gate at Dan & Sources of the Jordan (30/06/2000)
Italy - Scrovegni's Chapel (01/06/2006)
Laos - Sites Mégalithiques de la province de Xieng Khouang (25/03/1992)
Lebanon - Ensemble du site naturel de la région du Chouf avec les monuments et les sites archéologiques qui s'y trouvent (01/07/1996)
Mexico - Ring of Cenotes of Chicxulub Crater, Yucatan (11/12/2012)
Myanmar - Wooden Monasteries of Konbaung Period: Ohn Don, Sala, Pakhangyi, Pakhannge, Legaing, Sagu, Shwe-Kyaung (Mandalay) (04/10/1996)
Peru (Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador) - Sistema Vial Andino/Qhapaq Ñan (13/08/2010)
Philippines - El Nido-Taytay Managed Resource Protected Area (16/05/2006)
South Korea - Southwestern Coast Tidal Flats (11/01/2010)
United States - Petrified Forest National Park (30/01/2008)

New Suggestions (Candidate for Top 50 Missing)

France - Drift Passes of Rangiroa, French Polynesia
India - Chhatris (cenotaphs) of Orchha
Germany - Tempelhof Airport, Berlin
Laos - Si Phan Don Complex
Myanmar (Thailand) - Mergui Archipelago and Andaman Coast
Peru - Huaca de la Luna and Huaca del Sol
Serbia - Synagogue of Subotica
Spain - Guggenheim Museum Bilbao, Frank Gehry
Somalia - Laas Gaal
United States - Mount Rushmore
United States - Chicago School of Architecture
United States - Golden Gate Bridge
United States- Hollywood Studios & Movie Palaces
United States - Ford River Rouge Complex


Europe and North America - 13
Asia and the Pacific- 9
Latin America and the Caribbean - 3
Arab States - 2
Africa - 2

Cultural: 21
Natural: 8

Are we still waiting for possible suggestions from Solivagant, Kkanekahn, Alexlove74 and Bojboj 3 picks?

How do we break down the remaining suggestions found in the list created by Assif & Jonathanf? I focused on the US since there was a lot of suggestions. What are some of the other major candidates people agree on?

Are we going by Els proposal, ultimately select 3 nominations to replace the inscribed sites on the previous Top 50? And then the remaining sites we have listed here may replace some of the properties we agree are NOT Top 50 from the original list? Presumably, 5-10 nominations from the original Top 50 could arguably be replaced with more worthy candidates. In addition to the 3 inscribed sites to replace, that means approximately 8-15 proposals listed here might make it on the Top 50 missing list.

Are we including nominations that will be evaluated by the WHC in 2014? I added them here for know, 5 nominations.

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