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Aspiring to be on the T List!

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Author Khuft
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#76 | Posted: 25 Oct 2010 18:51 
The encl. article (in German) goes in the same direction: The German state of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern wants to decide until November 2011 whether to propose Schwerin castle for WHL status in the future. However, they are unsure whether Schwerin has OUV enough on its own on the basis of being a building exemplifying historicism (so basically same idea as for Neuschwanstein and Peles).

An art historian acting as consultant suggests that Schwerin attempt a serial nomination with other historicist buildings. The following are mentioned: Franzensburg in Austria, Castle Frauenberg in Czech Rep, Castle Hohenzollern in southern Germany and Kesthell in Hungary; the art historian also mentions that several of these have already been approached, but not all have shown interest.

http://nachrichten.t-online.de/entscheidung-ueber-schloss-bewerbung-als-weltkulturerb e-soll-in-einem-jahr-fallen/id_43076072/index

Author david
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#77 | Posted: 11 Nov 2010 15:25 
There is a very interesting and worthy proposal to candidate in future Via Francigena to the WHL. http://www.associazioneviafrancigena.com/default.asp?s=5&o=7520&c=0 It is the second most important pilgrimage route in Europe after that of Santiago de Compostela. It starts from Canterbury and leads through UK, France, Switzerland and Italy arriving to Rome. The proposal is supposed to cover the section in Italy and the site could be later extended to the other countries.

Author Khuft
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#78 | Posted: 15 Dec 2010 17:43 
Is there a new multi-country serial nomination planned? The following just appeared on Ukraine's Tentative List: Trading Posts and Fortifications on Genoese Trade Routes. From the Mediterranean to the Black Sea

http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/5575/

One site is nominated in Ukraine (Sudak fortress), but according to the description 20 sites all over the Mediterranean are being considered...

So what's next? Venetian Trade Routes?

Author Assif
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#79 | Posted: 18 Dec 2010 19:40 
We could offer them several possible connections...
By the way - do you think this one is a bad joke??
http://www.e-architect.co.uk/israel/west_bank_wall.htm

Author Solivagant
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#80 | Posted: 19 Dec 2010 05:37 | Edited by: Solivagant 
My guess would be that it is a critical pastiche of the World Heritage system as operated by UNESCO. The e-Architect Web site is run by an Adrian Welch who has had a number of extended runs-in with the conservation lobby in Edinburgh about proposed developments there (A subscriber to this Forum - Nem was/is indeed one of his "nemeses").

Edinburgh is a disputatious city!! (this has always been one of its strengths). This quote from the site gives an impression of the debate going there about the impact of its WHS status – from the point of view of Architects and developers that is!
"The city of Edinburgh gained UNESCO World Heritage Status in 1995 and was granted for the contrast of the antique charm of the Old Town and the formal grandeur of the New Town. UNESCO is tasked with the preservation of the Edinburgh cityscape although it would appear that it is more concerned with the preservation of the cities aesthetic look.
Edinburgh has not developed this way before; it has not concerned itself with the preservation of a previous aesthetic look but has developed due to the way in which people have chosen to live their lives.
PRESENT...
Today Edinburgh is stuck in a rut. The arrival of World Heritage Status has strangled the birth of innovative architecture. So concerned for the need to maintain a consistent aesthetic for the city, buildings are stripped bare of all architectural expression to reveal yet another bland sandstone creation which will fade nicely into the background. .. Edinburgh needs to once again provide the innovation it is famous for."

Author meltwaterfalls
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#81 | Posted: 17 Jan 2011 05:16 
Alexandra Palace or Ally Pally as I know her.

One from my back yard, almost literally as the main supporter lives on the road behind me.
http://www.hornseyjournal.co.uk/news/bid_to_make_alexandra_palace_a_world_heritage_si te_1_773888
It is a nice place with some good history associated with TV history. Worth a visit if you have a few hours spare in north London, not really of outstanding universal value though.

Author winterkjm
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#82 | Posted: 31 Jan 2011 18:16 

Author Assif
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#83 | Posted: 24 May 2011 16:47 | Edited by: Assif 
Els travelling in Peru has just mentioned Huaca de la Luna´s curious absence from Peru´s T list. I came across this article (in Spanish) which claims there are negotiations going on with Unesco and that the main problems of the site are building plans in its immidiate vicinity.
http://noticiasnorte.com/2011/03/huaca-de-la-luna-no-seria-declarado-patrimonio-mundi al-de-la-humanidad/
It is also important to understand Peru's precolumbian past rivals that of Mexico and that there are many superb archaeological sites lacking on the T list. Just to mention a few: Kuelap, Revash, Tucume, Sechin, Cumba Mayo, Otuzco and the Sacred Valley. Just like with Iraq and Egypt I'm sure these sites would have been long nominated were they located in another country e.g. Iran, China, Mexico, Canada...

Author Assif
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#84 | Posted: 4 Jun 2011 15:39 
The Kibbutzim Movement is attempting a proposal of several representative historical Kibbutz settlements to Unesco. I consider this idea to be highly appropraite as the Kibbutz is indeed a unique way of life.
http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/spages/1205521.html (in Hebrew)

Author winterkjm
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#85 | Posted: 23 Oct 2011 19:10 
The United Arab Emirates is planning to add historic sites in Dubai to their tentative list.

Dubai: Historic parts of Dubai along the Creek, including Al Shindagha, old souks and Al Bastakia

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/general/six-sites-make-preliminary-list-for-world-h eritage-bid-1.917013

Author Solivagant
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#86 | Posted: 24 Oct 2011 08:33 | Edited by: Solivagant 
We have recently completed a trans-Europe journey by boat from Amsterdam to the Black Sea (Rhine-Main-Danube) which included a number of WHS (only 1 new one unfortunately!!). At each non-Inscribed or non-T List location I took the opportunity to ask local guides/Tourist offices etc about any WHS aspirations they might have.

Passau, it appears, has serious intentions -despite there being perhaps (Certainly??) already too many historic European cities/baroque churches etc!!

Herewith a web site with background information on this aspiration and the strategy to be adopted to develop a "unique" case
http://regiowiki.pnp.de/index.php/Weltkulturerbe_Passau

I don't know if other German states are similarly involved (any more info Khuft??) but it appears that Bavaria at least has been/is still carrying out an exercise to identify 2 sites to place on the German T List for putting forward in/from 2018 (?). Other aspirants include Ludwig's Castles (mentioned earlier on this thread by Khuft as a possible trans-national nomination) and the Nuremburg Trial Courtroom. See here for full list of all 13 (!!!)
http://www.br-online.de/bayern/wege-und-ziele/bayerisches-welterbe-DID1188597790/neus chwanstein-passau-rothenburg-ID1295265440839.xml

Author hubert
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#87 | Posted: 24 Oct 2011 10:01 
Indeed, in Germany efforts have been started to create a new Tentative List. The current T List will be completed in 2018 (maybe earlier, if not all candidates submit an application). The procedure in Germany is a rather complicated two-step process, because the responsibility for cultural affairs lies with the federated states ("Bundesländer"). First, each of the 16 states is requested to suggest two potential sites until August 2012. So we'll get a preliminary list of 32 candidates, probably less, because not all states will suggest two sites. Second, the preliminary list will be evaluated by an expert committee and the final Tentative List will be available probably in 2014 or 2015.

In Bavaria, the internal deadline has already passed and 13 sites have submitted a preliminary application. I think it's no surprise that the Castles of Ludwig II are among the aspirants, but I admit that I don't like the Neuschwanstein Castle, it always reminds me of a wedding cake.
But I like the idea of the Nuremberg Trial Courtroom. Since November 2010, the courtroom is open for visitors, if there is no trial (it is still in use as a courtroom). There is also an excellent exhibition on the Nuremberg trials.
Except for the courtroom the Bavarian list is rather boring, mainly abbeys/cathedrals/historic town centres.

During the last weeks I've picked up some information on the efforts in other German states, mainly from websites of local newspapers (Google is a good friend :-)). More than 40 candidates are discussed. As expected, many historic town centres, abbeys and castles are suggested, but there are also interesting candidates: industrial heritage, Jewish heritage, 20th Century architecture. I'll try to update my information and post a complete list

Author winterkjm
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#88 | Posted: 24 Oct 2011 13:52 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Castles of Ludwig II

I think these castles and palaces are a good example of famous tourist sites that probably don't meet the requirements of a world heritage site. They are all from the late 19th century, so there importance was not as a fortification, but only for wealth, luxury, and status. The only influence (I know) Neuschwanstein Castle had on other architecture was the castle in Disneyworld. While Linderhof and Herrenchiemsee palace seem to owe most of their design to Versaille. Herrenchiemsee is often described as a replica of Versailles.

This is one description on wikipedia: "He commissioned the construction of several extravagant fantasy castles and palaces."

It is hard to imagine how Bavaria can make the case for OUV. What possible criteria could any of these buildings meet? Offcourse, this is way in the future, and indeed these castles/palaces may not even be nominated.

I hope Germany doesn't develop a new tentative list of castles, palaces, and churches. Particularly, buildings such as those built during the reign of Ludwig II don't belong on the World Heritage List. It would be nice to see Germany develop a short and focused tentative list that offers something unique and new. (This may be a very short tentative list) Perhaps, 6-8 new nominations focused on 20th century architecture, industrial heritage, WWII, Jewish history, sport, and maybe one or two sites that include important cathedrals, castles, palaces, and or city centers.

Author Khuft
Registered
#89 | Posted: 24 Oct 2011 15:28 
I would disagree re the Castles of Ludwig II.

If there is an outstanding German building, then it's Neuschwanstein (whether you like it or not). It's one of the icons of historicism (an architectural movement that was widespread in the 19th century). It also represents romanticism's - another important movement of the 19th century -influence on architecture more than other example I can think of.

By it's very essence as the folly of a slightly mad king, it is unique. It may not have influenced other buildings - but then Ludwig II was a lone monarch dreaming of the long-gone days of absolutist power while other monarchs in Europe were moving towards constitutionalism or focusing their financial efforts on their imperialist conquests.

Indeed it may be comparable to the Cheops pyramid - ultimately useless, definitely megalomaniac and with little influence on subsequent buildings except the pyramid of the Luxor casino in Las Vegas.

Author hubert
Registered
#90 | Posted: 24 Oct 2011 16:31 
The impact of historicism as an architectural style is rather controversial. I think, mainly because it's an imitation and mixture of many other architectural styles. Thus, I agree with winterkjm that it will be difficult to justify the OUV. Undoubtedly, the castles are in some way exceptional, and I guess that they will get one of the Bavarian tickets. But popularity is not a guarantee for inscription in the WH list (see the case of Heidelberg)

Concerning the new German T List: I am optimistic that the final list will be short, like the new lists of the Netherlands or the UK, and not a comprehensive inventory of all cultural and natural goods like in France or Italy. At least, it was announced that experts from ICOMOS and IUCN will be in the committee for the final evaluation. And most of the state governments have also referred to the "Filling the Gaps" report.
I think, most of the local authorities are well aware of the fact that European sites are over-represented and that churches/castles/medieval towns have only little chance. But the whole WHS issue is very popular in Germany. Due to the long lasting selection process all suggested sites will get much medial attention. This may help to attract more tourists or to get more money for preservation. Moreover, it costs little money to submit a preliminary application.

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