Connections www.worldheritagesite.org Forum / Connections /

Connection Queries?

Page  Page 10 of 13:  « Previous  1  ...  9  10  11  12  13  Next »  
Author Solivagant
Registered
#136 | Posted: 30 Jul 2012 07:11 | Edited by: Solivagant 
meltwaterfalls:
because that would increase the numbers as most will have gone through nearby city centres/ iconic sites that are that are inscribed (Sydney Opera House, Great Wall, Westminster...)


We need to be careful about assuming that long distance events going near to WHS will have actually gone "within" the boundaries.
The London Marathon for instance goes along The Embankment, then Bridge St and Gt George St and on to Birdcage Walk - but the inscribed site doesn't include any of these areas. The only road included within the site is part of St Margaret St and that isn't on the route,
Similarly with the Tower of London - close enough for some "iconic" TV moments but not actually "within" the inscribed site. (Gosh - I am sounding like an "Olympic nutter" aren't I - really I am just wishing I had gone away on holiday for the duration!)

I have checked - the Beijing Marathon DID pass within the central inscribed zone of the Temple of Heaven
Also the Men's Cycle Road race at Beijing finished near the Gt Wall - but did it go "inside" the inscribed site? Well I found this "After two sweeping right turns in the final kilometer, the final 350m is up a short but moderately steep climb that passes under the South Gate of the Great Wall, which was built in the 14th century, to assure an exciting finale." So i think we can assume it did!

Author elsslots
Admin
#137 | Posted: 30 Jul 2012 09:56 | Edited by: elsslots 
Solivagant:
But is that enough?

No I don't think so.
We also have Le Havre, where the harbour is in the buffer zone. So this could not be a link for a sailing event. Another reason to delete this one is that the Olympics were held here in 1900 and 1924, and the reconstruction of Le Havre is much more recent (1945-1964)

I will delete both

Author Solivagant
Registered
#138 | Posted: 30 Jul 2012 10:42 | Edited by: Solivagant 
I also wonder if any of the sports at the 1928 Amsterdam Olympics went through the 17th Century Canal Ring area? Routes were not designed for TV coverage in those days!!

I found this
"The 1928 marathon course started and ended at the Olympic Stadium, but was not strictly out-and-back, as there were small loops near the halfway point, and on the return to the Stadium".
The Olympic stadium is further out SW of the Canal area. It would only seem possible if the race had gone IN to the Dam Sq area?

I also discovered that the Official Reports of all modern Olympic Games are on the Web.
Herewith that for Amsterdam http://www.olympic-museum.de/o-reports/report1928.htm

I downloaded it but it didn't give the route -it did show the start, leaving the stadium and a feeding station but nothing with competitors passing "famous" locations

The Modern Amsterdam marathon run since 1975 also starts and finishes at the Olympic Stadium but does NOT apparently follow exactly the same course every year. This year it doesn't enter the inscribed area of Amsterdam -
http://www.tcsamsterdammarathon.nl/files/2011/12/route-marathon-groot.jpg

Author elsslots
Admin
#139 | Posted: 30 Jul 2012 10:46 
Solivagant:
I also wonder if any of the sports at the 1928 Amsterdam Olympics went through the 17th Century Canal Ring area

I was looking into that too. It seems doubtful, as the Canal Ring is too narrow for cycle races. I am trying to find sources in Dutch

Author meltwaterfalls
Registered
#140 | Posted: 30 Jul 2012 11:18 
Solivagant:
We need to be careful about assuming that long distance events going near to WHS will have actually gone "within" the boundaries.

Yep, taking the strictest definition then the Marathon wouldn't go through Westminster or Tower of London as the sites stop at the curbs next to the marathon routes, same with the Forbidden city, which is set back from the 2008 route as well.

I remember the Road Race going through the Great Wall in 2008 (UK's first Gold Medal was won there).

So as it stands we have
2012: London: Greenwich (equestrian) Dorset & Devon Coast (Sailing)
2008: Beijing: Temple of Heaven (marathon) & Great Wall (Cycling)
2000: Sydney: Opera House (may not be included if we have the strict definition)
1968: Mexico City: Historic Centre (marathon started on Zocalo) UNAM (main stadium)
1964: Rome: Historic centre (marathon went through at night lit by torches!)
1956: Melbourne: Royal Exhibition Building (Basketball, weightlifting, wrestling, fencing)


I'm trawling through the other host cities but can't find any concrete links. I guess Moscow, Paris and Amsterdam could well turn something up.

Also investigating Athens (doubt it), Antwerp, Berlin, Helsinki, Seoul and Barcelona, which all have sites that could conceivably be involved in the main events.

No real idea about Winter Olympics to be honest but there are a few that are near WHS (Turin)

Author Solivagant
Registered
#141 | Posted: 30 Jul 2012 11:22 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Re Amsterdam Cycle Road Race
I have downloaded the 1928 Amsterdam report again to look at the Cycling Road Race
a. The winner took 4hrs 47 so it was quite a long course
b. There are photos of competitors "passing the control station at Scheveningen" (which is of course down by Den Haag) and another of a competitor way out in the (very flat!) Dutch open countyside.

No evidence that it was a "city centre" course!

Re Sydney Opera House and Triathalon
I have found this photo of the winner of the 2000 Triathalon finishing the running section (and hence the entire event). The position of the Opera house shows that the finish was in front of it and INSIDE the inscribed area as on the map on the UNESCO site as the area in front of the Opera House is inscribed as far as the boundary with the Botanic Gardens
http://running.about.com/od/olympictriathlon/ss/trihistory_3.htm

I have also seen a video of the start of the swimming but that was from a special platform which is not inside the insicrbed area which follows the waterline exactly.

Author elsslots
Admin
#142 | Posted: 30 Jul 2012 11:37 
Solivagant:
way out in the (very flat!) Dutch open countyside.

I saw that photo too, next to a nice old car wasn't it?
It looks like the Beemster Polder, but probably is the area around Schiphol Airport.
That is also on the way between the Olympic Stadium (in the south of Amsterdam) and Scheveningen.

Author elsslots
Admin
#143 | Posted: 30 Jul 2012 11:46 
Solivagant:
The winner took 4hrs 47 so it was quite a long course

The course was 168 km. That is much further than to Scheveningen and back. They might have made another loop to the north of Amsterdam

Author meltwaterfalls
Registered
#144 | Posted: 30 Jul 2012 11:51 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
elsslots:
It looks like the Beemster Polder, but probably is the area around Schiphol Airport.

I did wonder if Beemster was included.
I guess it would have to pass through the Defence Lines of Amsterdam if it got out to Scheveningen, but guess that none of the forts would have been involved.
It seems the sailing took place on the Zuidersee, setting off from Muiden, which has 3 sites from the Defence Lines around it, including Pampus island, not sure how strict we are as to whether they qualify.

Yep, looks like the Opera House is included then.

Author Solivagant
Registered
#145 | Posted: 30 Jul 2012 11:57 | Edited by: Solivagant 
The Road Race photo to which i referred is repeated here. A bridge in the background is identified as the Hembrug over the Nordsee Kanal (now a Tunnel Els??)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nationaalarchief/2949307178/

So it looks as if there was indeed also a northern circuit but again outside the then city centre

The photo leads to a number of other photos of the 1928 Olympics from the Dutch Archive. I haven't looked at them all yet but have already seen one of the demonstration sport of Korfbal being played in some built-up place other than the stadium -but still not obviously inside the Canal ring
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nationaalarchief/2949307178/

Author winterkjm
Registered
#146 | Posted: 30 Jul 2012 12:06 
I think nothing in Seoul was covered. I checked the marathon and the course was south of the Han River, in which the only potential site that runners may have passed was 1 cluster of Royal Joseon Tombs. They definetly did not run through the tomb area!

Olympic Park in Seoul is also located south of the Han River. At the time Korea did not have any WHS. Olympic stadium is next to the Han River on the north bank, but not too near to the palace and shrine.

I am not sure about cycling?

Author meltwaterfalls
Registered
#147 | Posted: 30 Jul 2012 12:15 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
Off the back of the Sailing at Muiden, it seems there are a few other sailing events that have happened off the coast of WHS; 1980: Riga, 1960: Naples, 1952: Suomenlinna, 1924 & 1900: le Havre, I don't think any of them would make our criteria for inscription though.

This photo shows the 1980 Marathon going through Red Square and Kremlin.

And this video shows the 1992 marathon going past some of the Guadi Buildings, but if we are being strict, then going past isn't entering the site so they would be out.

Author elsslots
Admin
#148 | Posted: 30 Jul 2012 13:16 | Edited by: elsslots 
meltwaterfalls:
This photo shows the 1980 Marathon going through Red Square and Kremlin.

Remarkable. Dutchman Gerard Nijboer won Silver in this race. There's a photo of him training at the Red Square, (http://www.anp-archief.nl/page/2126194/en). The accompanying text says that the race itself did not include the Red Square.

P.S.: there's a similar photo at the same page that shows the pack running past St. Basil's - so I'll include it in the connection

Author Solivagant
Registered
#149 | Posted: 30 Jul 2012 14:11 | Edited by: Solivagant 
I have been checking the London 1908 marathon route - it started at Windsor Castle but didn't, as far as I can see, go through Kew Gardens on its way to the finish at White City Shepherds Bush!

In so doing I came across these 2 articles about the 1908 London games. I was generally aware of the "arbitrary nature" of the length of the Marathon course but wasn't aware of the exact details as to how it finished up at 26 miles 385 yards - if you wish to know then the first article will tell you! The second indicates that the Games and "Controversy" have always been intertwined - especially where "flags" are concerned (ref DPRK already at this year's games!)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/21/sports/the-marathons-accidental-route-to-26-miles-3 85-yards.html?_r=1
http://olympics.ballparks.com/1908London/index.htm

Author evilweevil
Registered
#150 | Posted: 30 Jul 2012 17:45 
The Olympic sailing competition in 1980 took place off Tallinn, not Riga. But a WHS nonetheless...

Page  Page 10 of 13:  « Previous  1  ...  9  10  11  12  13  Next » 
Connections www.worldheritagesite.org Forum / Connections / Connection Queries? Top

Your Reply Click this icon to move up to the quoted message

 

 ?
Only registered users are allowed to post here. Please, enter your username/password details upon posting a message, or register first.
 
 
  www.worldheritagesite.org Forum Powered by Chat Forum Software miniBB ®