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TWHS Maps - The data

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Author Solivagant
Registered
#346 | Posted: 9 Aug 2017 15:28 
Have just noticed that the T List site - "Desert Castles of Ancient Khorezm" only has coordinates for 1 of its 8 locations (Toprak Qala)
Here is the full set
Anka Qala 41.758569, 61.150981
Ayaz Qala 42.014114, 61.028892
Big Guldursun fortress 41.69311, 60.98141
Djanbas Qala 41.85816, 61.30365
Koy-Kirilgan Qala 41.755214, 61.116921
Kurgashin Qala 42.034167, 61.321657
Pil Qala 41.70567, 60.73663
Toprak Qala 41.927508, 60.821932

Author elsslots
Admin
#347 | Posted: 10 Aug 2017 01:07 
Solivagant:
Here is the full set

Thanks, I've added them

Author Solivagant
Registered
#348 | Posted: 10 Aug 2017 03:14 | Edited by: Solivagant 
elsslots:
Thanks, I've added them

Are there "many" other T List locations without coordinates? I know of a few Inscribed ones missing - e.g some of the Asante Traditional buildings where we just couldn't find the required information .
Could we have a list which we could work through if and when the fancy takes? (Country/Site/Location)

By the way - I found this rather nice UNESCO document on Khorezm which might be worth providing a link to in the Desert Castles T List entry - it gives details, including plans, of most/all (?) of the castles as well as background on Khorezm generally (produced as part of a wider project in the area - "Innovative and Intersectoral Approaches to the Aral Sea Basin") -
http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0018/001888/188839eo.pdf

Author nfmungard
Registered
#349 | Posted: 10 Aug 2017 05:27 
Solivagant:
Are there "many" other T List locations without coordinates?

I think a QA / 4 eyeing effort would be also a worthwhile effort. We should have every country checked by someone else and confirm the coordinates.

Second issue I would find is making sure that the locations are properly / sensibly named. I think we had some conversion errors. And sites such as Quapac Nan have terrible names to begin with.

And repeating myself: We could also add POIs on the site page only... ;)

Author elsslots
Admin
#350 | Posted: 10 Aug 2017 12:25 
Solivagant:
Are there "many" other T List locations without coordinates?

There are currently 174 TWHS locations that have been entered without a location. (this of course is without the twhs for which we have identified a wrong number of locations)

I'll post them here batch for batch by country (for someone to do on a rainy day!).

Author elsslots
Admin
#351 | Posted: 10 Aug 2017 12:27 
Bangladesh
1209 The Lalmai-Mainamati Group of monuments 3 Charpatra Mura

Chile
1188 Archaeological sites of the Chinchorro culture 1 Arica
1188 Archaeological sites of the Chinchorro culture 2 Antofagasta
1188 Archaeological sites of the Chinchorro culture 3 Camarones River
1192 Ayquina and Toconce 2 Toconce
1203 Rupestrian art of the Patagonia 1 Ibanez River
1203 Rupestrian art of the Patagonia 2 Lake General Carrera
1203 Rupestrian art of the Patagonia 3 Magallanes Strait
1202 The Defensive Complex of Valdivia 1 Valdivia

Author Solivagant
Registered
#352 | Posted: 10 Aug 2017 13:03 
elsslots:
I'll post them here batch for batch by country (for someone to do on a rainy day!).

Might it not be easier to have a link to a single spreadsheet showing all of them and which can easily be updated as odd locations here and there get done?

Author elsslots
Admin
#353 | Posted: 10 Aug 2017 13:12 
Solivagant:
link to a single spreadsheet

http://www.worldheritagesite.org/locationstwhs.xlsx

Author Solivagant
Registered
#354 | Posted: 10 Aug 2017 13:23 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Defensive Complex of Valdivia (1202)
Actually has (at least) 4 locations I think with none in Valdivia itself despite this info being given for the coordinates on the UNESCO site – "Coordinates: Valdivia: Long. 73°15' W ; Lat. 39°49' S Corral Bay: Long. 73°25' W ; Lat. 39°50' "
The UNESCO description says - "Although with the passage of time the installations grew with regard to the number of batteries, and the role of the four basic fortresses changed, the original scheme remained unaltered, with four sites retaining their leading part: the Mancera island, Corral, Amargos and Niebla. The main bastion of this defensive complex was the Constantino island, later called Mancera. The island is located in the middie of the bay into which the Valdivia river flows, and there the San Pedro de Alcantara Castle was built according to the project designed by the Navy chief engineer, "
Wiki provides a slightly larger list of locations for the overall system including places in/near Valdiivia -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valdivian_Fort_System
but as these aren't mentioned on UNESCO I would ignore them!
So –
1 Mancera Island -39.891388, -73.392457
2 Corral Fort -39.888686, -73.426050
3 Amargos Fort -39.873482, -73.423847
4 Niebla Fort -39.870129, -73.402394

Ayquina and Toconce
Ayquina/Aiquina is slightly incorrect - So
1 Ayquina -22.279068, -68.322379
2 Toconce -22.264886, -68.166702

Author Solivagant
Registered
#355 | Posted: 10 Aug 2017 15:01 | Edited by: Solivagant 
The West Bohemian Spa Triangle
I can't understand why this one got left out - it actually has 3 locations. I have chosen a/the major spring location in each.
Karlovy Vary 50.222972, 12.883585
Františkovy Lázně 50.117275, 12.350651
Mariánské Lázně 49.977967, 12.706490

Author elsslots
Admin
#356 | Posted: 10 Aug 2017 15:06 | Edited by: elsslots 
elsslots:
Bangladesh
1209 The Lalmai-Mainamati Group of monuments 3 Charpatra Mura

Regarding this one: the wonderfully named website Offroad Bangladesh shows a location at http://offroadbangladesh.com/places/charpatra-mura/
No confirmation by Google Maps however, seems to be right next to a mosque (is a hindu shrine) - not impossible but still questionable

Author Solivagant
Registered
#357 | Posted: 10 Aug 2017 15:34 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Banco de Jagua Fauna Refuge 21.584277, -80.670439

See here for descriptions of the various components of this site - worth having a link to?? http://www.cubanaturetravel.com/undersea-parks

So - the Banco de Jagua is entirely marine as per the UNESCO description – "Banco de Jagua Fauna Refuge: It is a completely marine area made up in the upper part of an underwater elevation off the Cuban insular shelf that is a distinctive trait of the Cuban underwater world."

Author Solivagant
Registered
#358 | Posted: 10 Aug 2017 15:56 | Edited by: Solivagant 
elsslots:
No confirmation by Google Maps however, seems to be right next to a mosque (is a hindu shrine) - not impossible but still questionable

I think I would be happy with it ( 23.473752, 91.115629 )
a. There is clearly a rectangular ruin there which coincides with the description
b. This web site describes it as being approx 2.5kms NW of Kutila Mura (which IS on Google Maps). The spot chosen by Off road Bangladesh IS NW of Kutila Mura AND is calculated at between 2.2 and 2.4kms on foot! https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=F9ZhFMWSYKsC&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8&dq=charpatra+mura&sou rce=bl&ots=GL-1QxRDxP&sig=wXI0OX89eq4BcOmtbSuvxPIMBfg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiMr53Kts3 VAhVGOMAKHUK1ClAQ6AEIYDAN#v=onepage&q=charpatra%20mura&f=false
c. My old (2004!!) LP Bangladesh claims to show Charpatra Mura fairly close to the location chosen by Offroad Bangladesh BUT almost due north on the same road as Kutila Mura in the Military Cantonment area AND there is NOTHING visible there on Google Satellite view - see - 23.477831, 91.117827 .The Offraod Bangladesh location is ALSO inside the cantonment area.

So I think LP should have shown it a bit further south west. LP says that it is only 2kms north of Kotil Mura. It also says that it is "perched on a hill" - but it is impossible to assess this from Google Satellite view. I think the fact that the general area and distances are about right AND that there IS a ruin there which is otherwise un-named makes the OffRoad Bangledesh location pretty likely!

PS - see this from a more recent LP than mine - it doesn't even describe where it is as it says it can't be visited - presumably because it is inside the cantonment!
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=wHVmDQAAQBAJ&pg=PT293&lpg=PT293&dq=charpatra+mura &source=bl&ots=7iWRbStd97&sig=nFK8oH3ExZiXYHxAiAfqYECnocc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiN_sO bu83VAhVMJcAKHT8KCls4ChDoAQgnMAA#v=onepage&q=charpatra%20mura&f=false

Author elsslots
Admin
#359 | Posted: 11 Aug 2017 00:09 
nfmungard:
Second issue I would find is making sure that the locations are properly / sensibly named. I think we had some conversion errors. And sites such as Quapac Nan have terrible names to begin with.

I did a search in the database for "?" in a location name, and there were 290. They're all missing a ã, or a ü or a è etc.
I've started to repair those.

There may be others where the location name has been cut off half-way during conversion, stumbling upon a diacritical character. Those are harder to spot.

Author Solivagant
Registered
#360 | Posted: 11 Aug 2017 04:12 | Edited by: Solivagant 
1188 Archaeological sites of the Chinchorro culture
This UNESCO document produced as part of the long term push for the nomination of this site seems to be a worthwhile "link" to put up http://www.unesco.org/fileadmin/MULTIMEDIA/FIELD/Mexico/chinchorro4_02.pdf

For Arica I have chosen the El Morro hill next to Chinchorro Beach after which the culture was named when mummies were found there - the hill has yielded and is still yielding numerous archaeological finds ( see - http://www.archaeology.wiki/blog/2014/05/28/7000-year-old-mummy-found-in-chile/ ) - whereas the beach is now ..... just a beach!

For Antofagasta I have been unable to find the coordinates of ANY single significant and relevant archaeological site - and the UNESCO Web site T List description doesn't help. There seem no sense in just providing the coordinates of the city if it doesn't have any "remains" and it appears that Chinchorro remains relate more to the entire "Province of Antofagasta" than the city - and most sites lie significantly further North! Indeed the UNESCO document contains this "This mortuary practice persisted for nearly 4,000 years along the coast of the Atacama Desert from Ilo, Peru, to perhaps Antofagasta, Chile. Interestingly enough, current bioarchaeological data suggest that the cultural core of this mortuary practice was the Arica-Camarones region" - so we would be looking for a single "type site" from one of the earlier "formative periods" for the culture and its predecessors rather than for a "genuine" Chinchorro site with mummies etc etc!!
But which "earlier" site???? The UNESCO report also states "Little evidence of the Formative Period has been found along the Antofagasta coast, possibly due to a lack of focused investigation" The maps in the document don't suggest anything either! Any suggestions are welcome - Assif - this is the sort of thing you often have knowledge about!!!!
Els - since it would seem likely that any final nomination would have a fairly large number of locations - many of which have not been separately identified in the T LIst description to date - AND that none of these would seem likely to include Antofagasta city per se, another approach might be to remove this location from our definition of the T List site and reduce that to just the 2 locations which definitely have some validity? Views?

For Camarones River I have chosen the location where "In 2010, a monumental sculpture celebrating the Chinchorro Culture was inaugurated in the town as part of the bicentennial of the Chilean Republic. The sculpture is four and a half meters tall and weighs eight tons; it is located in the vicinity of the archaeological sites 'Camarones 14 and 15'."

So - the proposed coordinates are -
1 Arica -18.480362, -70.324019
2 Antofagasta (Remove as a "location"?)
3 Camarones River -19.197282, -70.266549

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