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WHS Map - the Data

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Author Colvin
Registered
#61 | Posted: 10 Oct 2016 21:59 
elsslots:
I've added them all now, wondering however if the coordinates are right.

Interesting. I just got back from a weekend backpacking trip, and you're right -- the coordinates aren't in a straight line. I'll go back and check those against the coordinates in the nomination file for the Antonine Wall.

Author elsslots
Admin
#62 | Posted: 11 Oct 2016 00:44 | Edited by: elsslots 
For those of you who like to puzzle and stare at maps, I've got 2 more that I cannot find.
They're locations of Ancient Merv:

886-022 Mausoleum of Huday Nazar; the Mausolea of Gok Gumbaz
(there's a clue in the nomination file, which also may lead to the conclusion that these are actually 2 locations:
"Huday Nazar Mausoleum is located c. 24 km. north west of Sultan Kala in a cemetery with
numerous saxaul trees. In an advanced state of decay, the dome has fallen in, but the
original Seljuk facade is still largely in place on the west facade. Three fine mausolea
survive at Geok Gumbaz, some 150 km. north-west of Merv. These date to the
Timurid period and are in the necropolis of a city founded by the Mongols".)

886-023 Mausoleum of Imam Qasim
"The Imam Qasim mausoleum is located approximately
20 km. north east of Merv and forms the centre of a complex with two prayer halls and
an askhana. One mosque is joined to the mausoleum and may be contemporary, the
other is new. It has been dated to the 18th or 19th centuries"

Author Solivagant
Registered
#63 | Posted: 11 Oct 2016 05:11 | Edited by: Solivagant 
elsslots:
I've got 2 more that I cannot find.
They're locations of Ancient Merv:

Is there any particular reason why this Web site records Merv as having 15 locations whilst the UNESCO Web site records 23? (It would be a great help by the way if the web site showed the UNESCO "Location numbers" as well as the title)
I note that our map has 13 dots -are the 2 "missing" ones the same 2 you have identified in the above post?
Should we be looking for the other 8 as well? Whilst looking for the 2 you have identified as missing I have, for instance found some info which could identify the coordinates of locations 013, 014 and 015 - The 1st, 2nd and 3rd - "Ice houses"!! See
http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives/view/merv_ahrc_2008/images.cfm?imageType =maps&CFID=573996&CFTOKEN=39545028
and
http://archive.cyark.org/ancient-merv-map

I have also traced some info on "023 The Mausoleum of Imam Qasim.". It is from Archnet which is a reasonably "authoratitive" source- see http://archnet.org/sites/3950
"The Talkhatan Baba Masjid is a commemorative mosque, built around the mausoleums of revered Sufi saints Talkhatan Baba, Imam Qasim, Imam Shafi and Imam Bakr. It lies in the Talkhatan Baba Village in the Murghab Valley, approximately 19 miles southwest of the walled city of Sultan Kala in Merv."
The trouble is that this info doesn't coincide with the existing placing of locations "020 Mosque/Mausoleum of Talkhattan Baba" and "021 Mausolea of Imam Bakr and Shafi". which are clearly "separate" by some distance rather than being a part of the same complex

Now, as far as I can see, these have been taken from the Nomination File via the UNESCO Web site. The coordinates appear to have been copied correctly from the relevant paragraph which I copy below. I have amended the layout to help differentiate the locations and coordinates but have left all punctuation exactly the same. The para is still unclear - do semicolons indicate a new set of sites sharing the same coordinates? Why do some not have such semicolons etc etc? Why do some apparently not have coordinates? Also there are clearly some errors - e.g I have highlighted 2 coordinates which clearly do NOT refer to anywhere near Merv!!
"Principal Islamic Monuments outside the immediate environs of the State Historical and
Cultural Park 'Ancient Merv' but protected by that Park.

Mosques and Mausolea:
the Mausoleum of Abdullah ibn Buraida;
the mosque and minaret at Uly Kishman N. 41 99 395. E. 42 14 10, and minaret at Garry Kishman;
the Mosque/Mausoleum of Talkhattan Baba, N. 37 24 724, E. 62 10 182;
the Mausolea of Imam Bakr and Shafi, N. 37 23 500, E. 62 05 500;
the Mausoleum of Huday Nazar;
the Mausolea of Gok Gumbaz; N. 61 15 E. 42 10.
Mausoleum of Imam Qasim.

The Koshks;
Garam koshk, N. 37 43 000 E. 62 09 000;
Besh Agyz koshk, N. 37 52 199 E. 62 04 053;
Thulli koshk, N. 37 47 489 E. 62 02 981;
the Greater and Lesser Nagym Kalas, N. 37 41 676 E. 61 57 882;
Kelte Minara koshk, N. 37 23 637 E. 62 00 529;
Ovliali koshk, N. 37 30 00 E. 62 04 000;
Yaki Pir koshk, N. 37 44 553 E. 61 58 907;
Durnali koshk, N. 37 53 01 E. 62 05 111;
Kurtly 'caravanserai' N 37 52 039 E. 62 07 629.
Bairam Ali Ding, N. 37 37 500 E. 62 08 000."

Author nfmungard
Registered
#64 | Posted: 11 Oct 2016 06:06 
Solivagant:
Is there any particular reason why this Web site records Merv as having 15 locations whilst the UNESCO Web site records 23?

If I recall correctly Ian originally picked up the locations from the unesco site. I think there were some errors due to bad data quality / format on the unesco site or omitted locations. This was imho one of them.

Author elsslots
Admin
#65 | Posted: 12 Oct 2016 01:29 
Solivagant:
Is there any particular reason why this Web site records Merv as having 15 locations whilst the UNESCO Web site records 23?

It lists 33! Of which at least one is double (Bairam Ali ding). I've added them all now, plus the approximate coordinates I could get off the archeodataservice link. Some are still missing though. I will keep on looking when I have a bit more time.

Author elsslots
Admin
#66 | Posted: 16 Oct 2016 11:05 
Another one I need help with: Ogasawara Islands

Unesco website has 21 locations, of which 2 are marine areas without coordinates. So does this website.

The tekst of the AB evaluation says however:
The serial property is comprised of five components within an extension of about 400 km from north to south and includes more than 30 islands, clustered within three island groups of the Ogasawara Archipelago: Mukojima, Chichijima and Hahajima, plus an additional three individual islands: Kita-iwoto and Minami-iwoto of the Kazan group and the isolated Nishinoshima Island.

So are there 5? And are those 5 Mukojima, Chichijima, Hahajima, Kazan group (Kita-iwoto + Minami-iwoto ) and Nishinoshima Island?
The map seems to support this theory: http://whc.unesco.org/document/115725

Author Solivagant
Registered
#67 | Posted: 20 Oct 2016 10:04 | Edited by: Solivagant 
I note that the Silk Road is recorded in one place on this site as having 33 locations and another as having just 3. This derives from the fact that the UNESCO web site only references and shows on its map 3 locations – 1 for each involved country (China, Kyrgyz and Kazakh) -but we have only the 3 locations on our map so i have tried to complete all of the others

The numbering system on the Maps of the site is very complex with a mixture of sequences of different formats across countries!! A further complexity is that IN ADDITION to the 33 "new" inscribed sites both Longmen Grottoes and Mogao Caves were inscribed but NOT given reference numbers on the map - The entire inscription therefore REALLY consists of 35 locations! I suspect that referecne numbers will have to be made up for the purpose of our map?

The 3 on the UNESCO Web site with coordinates are
001CN Wiyang Palace
008KG Suyab (Site of Ak-Beshim)
011KZ Site of Kayalak

I have traced the other coordinates as follows – reference numbers are as per the Nomination File system. On a few I was unable to access the EXACT remains using Google Earth or other means so have found the town or village with the location's name as a very near approximation (Marked "Approx")

001CN Weiyang Palace, Chang'an City, of W Han Dynasty (2nd C BC – 1st C AD)
34.302201, 108.863248

003CN Daming Palace in Chang'an City of Tang Dynasty (7th -10th C AD)
34.284818, 108.960934

R06CN Great Wild Goose Pagoda
34.218226, 108.964153

R07CN Small Wild Goose Pagoda
34.239162, 108.942027

R08CN Xingjiaosi Pagodas
34.089907, 109.038896

R05CN Bin county cave temple
35.072914, 107.997208

A01CN Zhang Qian tomb
33.160190, 107.295488

002CN Loyang City, from the E Han to N Wei Dynasty (1st – 6th c AD)
34.635563, 112.443755

004CN Dingding Gate, Luoyang City of Sui and Tang Dynasties
34.632853, 112.460419

T01CN Han'gu pass
34.630454, 110.922919

T02CN Shihao section of Xiaohan route
34.724204, 111.517000

R04CN Maijishan cave temple complex
34.348341, 106.009845

R03CN Bingling cave temple complex
35.826745, 103.020186

T04CN Xuanquan posthouse
40.257464, 95.280539

T03CN Suoyang city
40.262554, 95.979059

T05CN Yumen pass
40.270811, 93.930531

C05CN Qocho City (Gaochang)
42.859665, 89.532083

C06CN Site of Yar City (Jiaohe)
42.946523, 89.069256

R01CN Kizil cave temple
41.780842, 82.501520

R02CN Subash Buddhist temple
41.862793, 83.043249

T06CN Kizilgaha Beacon tower
Approx ("12kms NW of Kuqa") 41.764407, 82.898088

007CN Site of Bashbaliq city
Approx (nr Jimsar) 44.006919, 89.182737

011KZ Site of Kayalyk
45.664095, 80.260383

S01KZ Talgar
Approx 43.302665, 77.232792

T07KZ Karamergen
46.254877, 75.626207

008KG Suyab (Site of Ak-Beshim)
42.813361, 75.241528

009KG City of Balasagun (Site of Burana)
42.746402, 75.250097

010KG City of Nevaket (Site of Krasnaya Rechka)
42.915738, 75.008179

S02KZ Aktobe
Approx 50.299046, 57.184168

S03KZ Kulan
Approx 42.910342, 72.718055

S04KZ Ornek
Approx 42.972767, 72.149663

S06KZ Kostobe
Approx 42.964776, 71.466279

S05KZ Akyrtas
Approx 42.953285, 71.801971

Longmen grottoes
34.559481, 112.467674

Mogao caves
40.039406, 94.805852

Author elsslots
Admin
#68 | Posted: 20 Oct 2016 11:40 
Solivagant:
I have traced the other coordinates as follows

Wonderful, Solivagant! I'll start adding them (and bring the total up to 35)

Author Solivagant
Registered
#69 | Posted: 20 Oct 2016 13:48 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Els,
By comnmencing all the locations with the long phrase "Silk Roads: the Routes Network of Chang'an-Tianshan Corridor" it results in none of the pop ups/mouse overs on the map actually displaying the "unique" name of the location! Better to use as short a site name as possible to differentiate from any other nearby site whilst still showing a unique location name??

Author elsslots
Admin
#70 | Posted: 21 Oct 2016 00:44 
Solivagant:
Better to use as short a site name

Changed it!

Author elsslots
Admin
#71 | Posted: 24 Oct 2016 14:05 
I need some help with remaining St. Petersburg locations. Cannot find these (have found a lot of the others):
540-013 The Monastery Troitse-Sergieva Pustin
540-015 The Palace and Park Ensemble of Mikhailovskaya Datha (Mikhailovka
540-016 The Palace and Park Ensemble of Znamenskaya Datha (Znamenka
540-021 Scientific Town-Institution of Physiologist I.P.Pavlov
540-022 The ensemble of the Zinoviev's dacha (estate Bogoslovka
540-023 The Shuvalov's (E.A.Vorontsova-Dashkova) Estate
540-024 Park of the E.I.Lopukhina's (Levashovy's, Viazemsky's) Estate
540-030 Izhorsky Bench (Glint)
540-031 Dudergofskie Elevations
540-032 Koltushskaya Elevation
540-033 Yukkovskaya Elevation
540-036 The memorial in memory of the defense of the city in 1941-1944 the Green Belt ofthe Glory of Leningrad

Author nfmungard
Registered
#72 | Posted: 24 Oct 2016 14:18 
We should have primary locations per country soon. If you feel these are off, please post these corrections here.

Author elsslots
Admin
#73 | Posted: 24 Oct 2016 14:58 
Colvin:
about the primary site for the Australian Convict Sites being on Norfolk Island. Based on user reviews, a case could be made that Port Arthur, Cockatoo Island, or Hyde Park Barracks

Which one should become the primary location? Unesco uses the Old Great North Road?!

Author Solivagant
Registered
#74 | Posted: 24 Oct 2016 15:32 | Edited by: Solivagant 
elsslots:
540-013 The Monastery Troitse-Sergieva Pustin

540-013 The Monastery Troitse-Sergieva Pustin
"The Coastal Monastery of St. Sergius (Сергиева Приморская пустынь) is a Russian Orthodox monastery in the coastal settlement of Strelna near St. Petersburg. It used to be one of the richest monasteries of the Russian Empire and formerly contained seven churches as well as many chapels."
59.853428, 30.089842

540-015 The Palace and Park Ensemble of Mikhailovskaya Datha (Mikhailovka)
Should be "Dacha" and now a Russian Business School! See

http://gsom.spbu.ru/en/gsom/kampus/ -
"Mikhailovskaya Dacha" located between Strelna and Peterhof on the area of former Grand Duke's summer residence."
59.863473, 29.991135

540-016 The Palace and Park Ensemble of Znamenskaya Datha (Znamenka
Could it be this place? http://www.encspb.ru/object/2804004950?lc=en
"ZNAMENKA (originally Znamenskaya grange), a manor on Peterhof Road, situated east of Alexandria Palace and Park Ensemble (see also Peterhof)"
This has the coordinates - http://wikimapia.org/1496056/Znamenka-Palace
Converts to about 59.876812, 29.964616

540-021 Scientific Town-Institution of Physiologist I.P.Pavlov
I think it must refer to the place described as "The majority of the subdivisions of the Institute of Physiology are located in the scientific town Koltushi of Vsevolozhsky District founded by Pavlov." See here - http://www.encspb.ru/object/2804011120?lc=en
Google maps shows the Institute to be just outside the town of Koltushi situated east of St P -
59.936715, 30.650089

540-022 The ensemble of the Zinoviev's dacha (estate Bogoslovka
I have discovered that Wikimapia is a good source and, with luck, it may provide a few more of the missing coordinates since it links directly to the UNESCO ref number!!!
http://wikimapia.org/13482488/Zinoviev-s-Estate-Ethnopark-Bogoslovka
59.829444, 30.572751

540-023 The Shuvalov's (E.A.Vorontsova-Dashkova) Estate
http://wikimapia.org/128016/Shuvalovskiy-park
60.075833, 30.304722

540-024 Park of the E.I.Lopukhina's (Levashovy's, Viazemsky's) Estate
http://wikimapia.org/499347/Osinovaya-Roscha-park
60.115833, 30.251095

Author elsslots
Admin
#75 | Posted: 25 Oct 2016 00:55 
elsslots:
540-031 Dudergofskie Elevations540-032 Koltushskaya Elevation540-033 Yukkovskaya Elevation

These must be hills - I found for example Koltushkaya Hills http://worldplacebox.com/2139560/Koltushskaya-Hills

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