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WHS Map - the Data

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Author meltwaterfalls
#136 | Posted: 14 Feb 2017 07:29 
Every Field in Slovakia proposal, just stuck it in a random field in Slovakia
What site is that? Sounds amazing.

I was exaggerating slightly, but it is this Original Meadow - Pasture Sites of Slovakia. It seems a slightly narrower amount than I remember, but they did look at 150 meadows in Slovakia and thought they were worthy of being on the t-list, I make it a vague 40 fields that they whittled it down to.

Yeah I think a Pilot project would be good. To be honest I would find any amount of accurate data useful when planning a trip. As with everything we should aim for 100% coverage, but failing that every piece of accurate data is an improvement on no data.

I think hosting it separately whilst we develop it would be good practice.

Author Solivagant
#137 | Posted: 14 Feb 2017 12:18 | Edited by: Solivagant 
This morning I had a go with the first 3 countries alphabetically - Afg/Alb/Alg . I did this without remembering that Meltwaterfalls had "done" them and it is interesting to compare the results (below)
2 issues arose
a. Large National Parks. This is the same problem as with similar WHS except that the UNESCO documentation often provides an "answer" I adopted the approach of choosing the location of the NP name on Google Maps!
b. Multiple Locations. Whilst some T List descriptions are very good at listing these in a clear way, others consist of text which mentions a range of places/areas without really identifying whether they would be separately inscribed or would be included within a single wider boundary (or certainly fewer separate locations). Even if one puts in the effort to identify how close together they are one cannot of course still "know" how they would be handled in the case of any possible future nomination. Following them through can be a big job and there is perhaps a mental "pressure" to opt out of some of them. The result of this could be that someone using the map would miss out on a location which had not been included.

My results v those of Meltwaterfalls (MW) were as follows

No real issues in identifying the 4 T List sites – each of which only has a single location
Bagh-e Babur 34.503061, 69.157998
Band-E-Amir 34.841505, 67.223768
City of Balkh (antique Bactria) 36.768503, 66.900473
City of Herat 34.359261, 62.186179

As far as I can see MW didn't include the 2 "Beech Forest" elements in his map – presumably because they were added after his initial "trawl". The other difference is in the way we have treated the "Ohrid Region" site. MW has only included 1 location (situated in the FYROM sector of the lake!!). I had chosen to include 3 locations – the towns of Lin in the north and Podgorca in the south as well as a separate one for the lake "littoral!
Extension to "Primeval Beech forests"
Lumi i Gashit 42.487147, 20.056888
Rrajca (Shebenik Jablanica NP) 41.220435, 20.447853
L'amphithéâtre de Durres 41.312234, 19.445066
Les tombes de la Basse Selca 41.312234, 19.445066
Natural and Cultural Heritage of the Ohrid Region
Pogradec 40.902902, 20.657687
Lin 41.065884, 20.644845
Lake Ohrid 40.983721, 20.651717
The Ancient City of Apollonia 40.721970, 19.472748

Quite a lot of differences in the way we have identified locations for multi location sites.
a. The UNESCO description is quite clear that there are 6 separate locations of Royal Mausolea. I located them all and was quite happy with the accuracy of the coordinates.
b. I tried hard to identify the various oases with Foggaras (i.e Qanats!!) mentioned in the description but gave up beyond the main one at Timimoun – they are all supposed to be in that area anyway. It could be argued that there should be more locations.....?
c. I am pretty sure that there are 4 separate locations for "Nedroma et les Trara". They are all in the same region but are 30-40kms apart. I am happy with the accuracy of the coordinates
d. Parc des Aures, Gorges du Rhoufi et d'El Kanatara caused me a lot of problems. MW only identified 1 location. It is a mixed site and I would estimate from the UNESCO description that there are 10 Separate locations BUT. I have only been able to identify 6 of them!!
e. It is very clear that the "Itineraires Augustinien" contains" 14 different locations. I am not sure how many MW covered – but I can't find all of them. I am very happy with 11 but in the case of 3 II can't actually discover any area of ruins inside the 3 towns –some of the others turned out to be outside the towns of the locations. So I have just used the town coordinates with a "?"!

Les Mausolées Royaux de Numidie
La Soumaa d'El Khroub 36.271581, 6.684932
Le Medracen 35.707099, 6.434435
Le Mausolée Royal Maurétanien 36.575291, 2.552868
Le Mausolée de Beni Rhénane (Siga) 35.258452, -1.450772
Les Djeddars 35.127771, 1.183814
Le Tombeau de Tin Hinan (Abalessa) 22.182704, 4.186991
Foggaras of G Erg Occ (Timimoun) 29.261067, 0.238366
Nedroma et les Trara
Nedroma 35.010330, -1.747223
Sidna Youcha 35.117188, -1.779442
Honaine 35.178473, -1.657090
l'Ile de Rachgoun 35.321883, -1.480343
Oued souf 33.367872, 6.851756
Parc des Aurès, Gorges du Rhoufi et d'El Kantara
Ichoukkane NOT FOUND
Kasserou NOT FOUND
Parc de Belezma 35.545794, 5.941247
Menaa 35.128463, 6.088811
Merouana 35.634568, 5.906823
Les Tamarins 35.333334, 5.850000
Gorges d'El Kantara 35.229847, 5.704254
Arris 35.257061, 6.350732
Vallée de l'oued Abdi et la Guelaa d'Iguelfène. NOT FOUND
Vallée de l'oued El Abiod NOT FOUND
Sites, lieux et itinéraires augustiniens du Maghreb central
Hippone (Annaba) 36.883111, 7.751883
Calama (Guelma) 36.462769, 7.430626
Thibilis (Announa) 36.383287, 7.249984
Thubursicu Numidarum (Khamissa) 36.193667, 7.655952
Madaure (Nr M'daourouch) 36.077869, 7.901472
Thagaste (Souk Ahras) 36.283517, 7.957513 ?
Castellum Tidditanorum (Tiddis) 36.462571, 6.482969
Thagoura (Taoura) 36.170376, 8.033885
Milev (Mila) 36.444717, 6.268815 ?
Sitidis (Setif) 36.192348, 5.404056
Caesarea (Cherchel) 36.607455, 2.186915
Cartenae (Tenes) 36.512276, 1.304787
Theveste (Tebassa) 35.404692, 8.123042 ?
Tubunae (Tobna) 35.348271, 5.345655

Based on trying to cover these 3 countries I suggest that our "policy" in determining which/how many "Locations" to adopt for T List sites should be as follows
a. Where the UNESCO site description clearly identifies separate locations - then list them even if we can't find their coordinates
b. Where places mentioned in the UNESCO text are geographically separated then at least ensure that this separation is reflected in the locations chosen
c. Make use of the T List site title to help determine which likely to be separate elements. A title which consists solely of a "city" name is unlikely to require separate locations within it but one which refers to several locations within a city might well justify the identification of each
d. Try to ensure at least that the site's main "highlights" are listed as separate identified locations – unless they are clearly within the same complex or in the same town.

I found that some of the locations I decided to choose (for the sorts of reasons above) were very difficult to identify coordinates for. I suggest that we "list" all the locations using the logic/format already adopted for inscribed site locations. Where we have been unable to identify coordinates then the map "pin" would not be present. As a "sophistication" I would suggest that, where we are unsure of the location then a "?" should appear after the pin using a flag on the data set for that purpose.

Author elsslots
#138 | Posted: 14 Feb 2017 13:13 
Thanks Solivagant. I've started a new topic about the TWHS locations, and moved your input there.

Author Jakob
#139 | Posted: 16 Feb 2017 02:50 
Something is wrong with the Asturian monuments

There should be 6 different ones. They are not labeled correctly on the Spain map.

San Miguel de Lillo, Municipality of Oviedo N43 22 49.20 W5 52 6.10
Santa María del Naranco, Municipality of Oviedo, N43 22 44.80 W5 51 57.80
Santa Cristina de Lena, Municipality of Pola de Lena N43 7 38.10 W5 48 51.40
Cámara Santa de Oviedo, Municipality of Oviedo N43 21 45.40 W5 50 34.90
Basilica of San Julián de los Prados, Municipality of Oviedo N43 22 3.80 W5 50 15.90
La Foncalada, Municipality of Oviedo, N43 21 55.00 W5 50 45.60

Author elsslots
#140 | Posted: 16 Feb 2017 13:51 
Something is wrong with the Asturian monuments

Thanks, I've updated them

Author winterkjm
#141 | Posted: 18 Feb 2017 00:42 
Royal Joseon Tombs are missing the Gangwon-do cluster near Yeongwol.

Jangneung Cluster
N37 18 27.00 E127 36 10.00

Author elsslots
#142 | Posted: 18 Feb 2017 01:36 
Jangneung Cluster

updated it (it was a copy error, another location was entered twice)

Author winterkjm
#143 | Posted: 18 Feb 2017 05:58 
updated it (it was a copy error, another location was entered twice)

Perhaps the coordinates online are wrong? I should see a dot all the way into the interior of Gangwon province, very far from Seoul. This tomb cluster near Yeongwol, is by far the most distant Royal Joseon Tomb from the capital. In fact, it is the only inscribed property within that province. On the country map and the specific WHS map it does not show up. Perhaps there could also be confusion, since the names are so similar or some cases the exact same?

Author elsslots
#144 | Posted: 18 Feb 2017 06:07 | Edited by: elsslots 
I should see a dot

The dot is there (light orange), north of Yeoju. Or should it be somewhere else?

Author winterkjm
#145 | Posted: 18 Feb 2017 06:25 
I've been to both locations, they are very far from each other. The Joseon tomb located in Gangwon-do is situated in that spot, because King Danjong was exiled and replaced as king.

Yeongneung Royal Tomb, Yeoju - This is King Sejong's Tomb

Jangneung Royal Tomb, Yeongwol - This is King Danjong's Tomb

From Wikipedia
Jangneung (Yeongwol) (영월 장릉)
37°11′51″N 128°27′11″E
This tomb lies in the county of Yeongwol, Gangwon Province. It is the furthest from capital.

Cultural Heritage Administration - Royal Tombs

Author elsslots
#146 | Posted: 18 Feb 2017 12:43 
Jangneung Royal Tomb, Yeongwol - This is King Danjong's Tomb

I think I´ve solved it now. It´s wrong at the Unesco website.

Author Jakob
#147 | Posted: 27 Feb 2017 02:13 
I just recognized that on the Poland countrymap, Park Muzakowski is missing. It is probably only one dot (on the german side) on the world map, however it should be represented on the Poland map as well.

Author elsslots
#148 | Posted: 27 Feb 2017 13:27 
Park Muzakowski is missing

Thanks for finding it. I've now created a so-called dummy location for it, as the site officially has only 1 location though it is spread over 2 countries.

Author meltwaterfalls
#149 | Posted: 27 Feb 2017 16:33 
Good spot, Jakob. Do we know if most of the transnational sites have the same problem or is this one unique?

Author elsslots
#150 | Posted: 27 Feb 2017 21:54 
Do we know if most of the transnational sites have the same problem

A lot of them did. but we already fixed them before.

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