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Ireland Future WHS

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Author pikkle
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#1 | Posted: 21 May 2015 19:06 | Edited by: pikkle 
One of my favorite countries - with such a rich Neolithic history, and also early medieval history and early Christian history (what used to be called the Dark Ages - and what we now recognize as being not-so-dark, in large part due to the flourishing culture of Ireland). Furthermore, the Georgian architecture that found a home in Limerick/Dublin is extremely important for the history of city planning.

There are also natural sites (The Burren) and mixed sites/CL that could be possible candidates (Hill of Tara, etc.)

Yet it only has two world heritage sites. I haven't seen any movement and their T-list is quite small (although the sites looks promising). Has anyone heard anything?

I know it's a small country - but I think there's more than two sites worthy of OUV in the Republic. I'm surprised that Waterford was left off the Viking Sites and Monuments. Pretty important site if you ask me.

Anyway, just curious about Ireland's future in regards to WHS.

Author meltwaterfalls
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#2 | Posted: 8 Jun 2015 13:06 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
They had a fairly big overhaul of their T-list about 5 years ago and launched a website to go along with it.

I expected to see them pursuing inscriptions after the update, and looking through the documents online that was the plan, though everything seems to have ground to a halt in 2009, or they just aren't publishing the minutes and are being very secretive about their proposals.
That page is worth a look even for non-Hibernophiles, especially from the World Heritage Seminar, Dublin Castle, September 2013, with presentations on the formation of t-lists etc.

This is their assessment of the T-List sites as of April 2009:
The Burren
Criterion (viii) is questionable in a comparative context as other international karst landscapes take precedence. The Cliffs of Moher be excluded from the site listing. Submit 2012 for nomination in 2014.

The Ceide Fields and the Atlantic Boglands of NW Mayo
Noted that these sites have obvious national importance, but was concerned about OUV. If Ceide Fields were nominated alone it would be easier to demonstrate OUV. Aim for submission in 2014 and inscription in 2016

Royal Sites
This proposal amounts to a potentially valuable serial nomination. The intention might be to nominate 3 of the 5 sites initially, namely; Cashel, Tara and Rathcroghan. The Hill of Uisneach and Dun Ailinne would follow. Contacts with the relevant UK and Northern Ireland authorities would be made by the Chair in relation to the nomination of the Navan Fort. Aim for submission in 2013 and nomination in 2015

Early Medieval Monastic Sites
Link to European monastic sites enhances their OUV, adding that the influence of these sites on Christianity and the different monastic and town plan forms in Europe was very significant. There are justifications for Criteria (ii), (iii) & (iv) applying to this nomination. Aim for submission in 2015 for nomination in 2017

Clonmacnoise
Draft nomination documentation and management plan had been prepared for Clonmacnoise it could be submitted for nomination at the end of 2009/early 2010 for nomination by 2011

Georgian City of Dublin
The City Council is committed to looking at the potential for Georgian Dublin’s nomination for World Heritage status. Georgian Dublin has a cohesive terrace form which is consistent in both the suburbs and the city district. It is imperative that detailed comparative studies should be undertaken before including Georgian Dublin high up the Tentative List for nomination. An important personality does not guarantee World Heritage Status, citing the example of Charles Darwin. He added that Criterion (iv) was used for Vienna “the musical capital of Europe”, which could be compared with Dublin.
The site should be prepared for nomination from 2014 with a view to submission in 2017.

In Short this was the plan for nominations if all went well:
2011 - Clonmacnoise
2014 - the Burren
2015 - Royal Sites
2016 - Ceide Fields
2017 - Early Medieval Monastic Sites or Dublin

Now those haven't happened, I have no idea why, but will head off and see if anything turns up. But Clonmacnoise's proposal wasn't met particularly warmly by local residents, and maybe that just ground the whole process to a halt before it really got started.


Putting a bit of interpretation on the other recommendations it seems this is how the other sites were reviewed.

Need further research but have potential:
Western Stone Forts

Keep in mind for future T-list updates:
Aran Islands, Blasket Islands, Cork (the Emigrant's Story), Cork (Napoleonic Fortifications), Valentia Tetrapod Trackway

Nationally significant but don't demonstrate OUV:
Clara Bog, Killarney National Park, Birr Castle, Lough Gur, St Brendans Clonfert

Go away:
Waterways Ireland, Boyne Navigation Canal, Rinn Duinn, Irish Walled Towns, McCarthy Castles, Carrigaphooca Castle

Author Assif
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#3 | Posted: 21 Jan 2017 15:08 
meltwaterfalls:
The Burren
Criterion (viii) is questionable in a comparative context as other international karst landscapes take precedence. The Cliffs of Moher be excluded from the site listing. Submit 2012 for nomination in 2014.

It seems the Burren indeed chose a different path. It has become a Unesco geopark and it seems it will not pursue a WHS status any longer.
http://www.burrengeopark.ie/burren-and-cliffs-of-moher-geopark-awarded-new-unesco-des ignation/

Author nfmungard
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#4 | Posted: 8 Jun 2017 06:13 | Edited by: nfmungard 
Having seen all Irish (Ireland + Northern Ireland) WHS and 5 of 6 tentative sites a short run down. I will write a review when I find the time.

Skellig Michael: Truly great.
* I went in shoulder season during the week and had to contact multiple operators 2-3 months prior. Being a bit flexible (Mo to Tu or Thu to Fri) I was able to get a spot on a boat by working the full list of operators. On our boat we also had two passengers who had booked very short term (1D), so I think there is a way. If you arrive in peak season, it seems boats are booked one year in advance.

Newgrange.
* Nice, but not too spectacular.
* Got really wet as it was raining heavily.
* You can tick off two tentative sites in the area (Tara, Kells and one more monastic site).

Giants Causeway
* A bit underwhelming. Probably because I had seen so many perfect pictures before. Still, a nice walk along the coast.

The Burren (T)
* Nice stop if you are driving along the coast.
* Dolmens were sufficient for Korea to get an inscription... But well, seems not the case.

Dublin (T)
* Very expensive compared to the rest of the country. I would keep it short.
* Key issue for me was that this looks very English. I think you will find better examples for this in the UK.

Western Stone Forts (T)
* Staigue was a bit underwhelming. Dun Aengus was just amazing. Go to the Aran Islands one! That one is a clear inscribe for me.
* Not sure our map data for the other three sites is correct.

Clonmacnoise
* Not sure why Clonmacnoise would be treated separately from the other early monastic sites.
* Clonmacnoise was very nice and I would favor inscription.
* Hotels are hard to fine in the area. Athlone really expensive for some reason. I would try to drive up the same day from Galway.

Early Monastic Sites
* Kells is rather simple, but on same bus line as Tara so good to combine.
* Glendalough is a splendid day trip from Dublin with the mountains and nature to enjoy.
* Not sure I would inscribe all of them plus Clonmacnoise

Royal Sites
* Tara is nice and an easy day trip from Dublin that can be combined. Nicer than Jelling, so would be pro inscription.
* Cashel is nice, too, but was rebuilt and is nowadays more of a monastic site.

So in summary:
* Stone Forts -> Yes for Don Aengus.
* Early Monastic Sites XOR Clonmacnoise -> Yes
* Royal Sites -> Yes for Tara.

Not sure what is happening to the Irish list and why they aren't submitting anything. I would fully approve of a Aran Islands inscription and I do think the western coast line should receive some more recognition. Apart from that I feel that the long English rule and the close proximity to England resulted in many too similar buildings to warrant inscription.

Some other ideas:
* Irish Uprising: I think this is internationally important as this may be considered as a sign of the end of the British empire.
* Sites related to the great famine.

Author meltwaterfalls
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#5 | Posted: 8 Jun 2017 19:36 
Agree with pretty much all of that, glad you got out to Skellig Michael, it really is a special site.

Certainly understand your view of Dublin, though I think how they shape the proposal will be influential. There is a really strong focus on literary heritage which I think plays to its strengths. Like you say it can look like a British city, I think there is a fair bit to be said for its development as the "Second City of the British Empire". The closest WHS comparisons would be Bath or Edinburgh due to the Georgian plans, but Dublin is a little different to both and if they play it correctly I can see it having a legitimate claim to OUV. (And yep it is a pretty expensive city, feeling more on a par with Scandinavia than other Eurozone cities)

From the other T-list sites Clonmacnoise is probably the one I have fondest memories of, though I never got out to the Aran Islands.

I think an Irish Uprising site would be rather interesting, though may be a little contentious at the moment from a Northern Irish perspective, due to the potential rearrangements of the UK leaving the EU.
Did you go to Kilmainham Gaol? It was one of the most interesting sites I have been to with tangible links to modern history. Also I used to go to the canteen in the GPO when I worked across the road so including that would get my support.

Author nfmungard
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#6 | Posted: 9 Jun 2017 04:32 | Edited by: nfmungard 
meltwaterfalls:
Certainly understand your view of Dublin, though I think how they shape the proposal will be influential.

Not a big fan of proposals requiring shaping. The German list is already full of that ;)

meltwaterfalls:
(And yep it is a pretty expensive city, feeling more on a par with Scandinavia than other Eurozone cities)

Especially if Guns and Roses are playing that very weekend ...

meltwaterfalls:
Kilmainham Gaol?

We had a pretty packed schedule and this wasn't on my radar then. So no.

Forgot one thing, though, that should be inscribed: the Irish Pub. Very influential on pubs around the world and can even be ordered from Irish companies. And while this again could be considered a British / English thing, I feel they augmented the concept and made it Irish and unique. Not sure what pubs they could select and how daily operations of a selected pub would change.

Author jonathanfr
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#7 | Posted: 9 Jun 2017 07:01 
nfmungard:
Forgot one thing, though, that should be inscribed: the Irish Pub. Very influential on pubs around the world and can even be ordered from Irish companies. And while this again could be considered a British / English thing, I feel they augmented the concept and made it Irish and unique. Not sure what pubs they could select and how daily operations of a selected pub would change.

The Irish pub could be on the list of intangible heritage.
I visited Skellig Michael and Kilmainham Gaol, two sites with a truly special atmosphere.

Author nfmungard
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#8 | Posted: 9 Jun 2017 07:32 | Edited by: nfmungard 
jonathanfr:
The Irish pub could be on the list of intangible heritage.

A pub itself is pretty tangible... Question is more how you can preserve this. And what pubs to select. Global influence of Irish pubs can be seen in any amusement district, airport, ...

Author Assif
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#9 | Posted: 9 Jun 2017 15:05 | Edited by: Assif 

Author Khuft
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#10 | Posted: 9 Jun 2017 15:12 
nfmungard:
And what pubs to select.

I volunteer for performing a comparative analysis!

Author winterkjm
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#11 | Posted: 26 Jul 2017 02:52 
Some interesting news regarding Ireland's world heritage program. This development may come as a surprise since Ireland has 0 inscriptions from its current tentative list. Valentia Island is vying for a spot on Ireland's tentative list, moreover the plan is it will be developed as a transnational nomination with Canada. It may even be added soon, but this is uncertain.

"The Irish government said its World Heritage Tentative List will not formally re-open for new candidate sites until 2020."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40702769

Author nfmungard
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#12 | Posted: 26 Jul 2017 03:53 | Edited by: nfmungard 
winterkjm

From the article:
"A comparable site in Germany attracts one million visitors every year, he told a conference."

What site is comparable to this? I would assume Grimeton in Sweden would be the closest. And that one is certainly not getting 1 Mio visitors a year.

Interestingly, I wonder why they don't propose the Marconi station:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marconi_station

That would be very much aligned with Grimeton, even though there are very little tangible assets left.

Author Solivagant
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#13 | Posted: 26 Jul 2017 03:59 | Edited by: Solivagant 
winterkjm:
Valentia Island is vying for a spot on Ireland's tentative list, moreover the plan is it will be developed as a transnational nomination with Canada

Background here regarding the Valencia TransAtlantic Cable Foundation and its long term plan to achieve WHS status
"In May 2016, the Valentia Transatlantic Cable Foundation Board was established to assist the Valentia Island Development Company with fundraising for the Transatlantic Cable UNESCO World Heritage Designation project.
The foundation was incorporated as a company limited by guarantee in December 2016 with the objective of the raising and application of money and other resources to advance the scientific heritage of, and community development on, Valentia Island and to promote Valentia Island as a site which should be included on UNESCO's World Heritage List.
The foundation's goal is to secure the required support and funding (estimated to be approximately €4.5m) by raising the profile of the project at national and international level while engaging with state funding opportunities and private donors.
"
See - http://valentiacable.com/

It is not quite clear to me why the entire island should be inscribed for the cable rather than just the station! Other Web sites make it clear that the nomination would be one of "Industrial Heritage".

There is less about this on the Canadian side but it does appear that the Canadian end (at the interestingly named "Heart's Content") IS a "Historic Site". See - http://www.historicsites.ca/heartscontent/

The BBC article quoted by winterkjm above contains this sentence - "[i]Unesco heritage expert Professor Alexander Gillespie from New Zealand's University of Waikato said winning Unesco status would considerably boost the islands tourism potential. A comparable site in Germany attracts one million visitors every year, he told a conference."[/i]
But I can't identify ANY "comparable site" in Germany - inscribed, T List or other - any suggestions???
Prof Gillespie's e-mail address is on the Web - I might ask him!!!

Author nfmungard
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#14 | Posted: 26 Jul 2017 04:49 
winterkjm:
Valentia Island

Forgot to mention this: This would be a terrible miss for me. I looked across the bay from Portmagee. But well.

Author meltwaterfalls
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#15 | Posted: 26 Jul 2017 07:41 
nfmungard:
Forgot to mention this: This would be a terrible miss for me. I looked across the bay from Portmagee. But well

Oof, yep a tough miss.

If it is any consolation the Cable station, somewhat counter intuitively, is at the other end of the island, i.e. the bit facing the mainland rather than the Atlantic so if it is just that it was at least 8km away rather than 0.5km.

I went to the Skellig Experience, which is the first building on the island, but don't think I ventured further. I would be left in a quandary about counting that one. I was fully aware of the cable when I visited and I have recollection of looking at a memorial plaque about it, but don't know if that would satisfy me.

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