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Author Solivagant
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#1 | Posted: 30 Apr 2014 06:02 | Edited by: Solivagant 
I think we have enough material and issues to make it worth starting a new topic for "Japan".

Is there a way Els in which you can transfer posts from other threads or is it better either to create links to them or to quote/copy them? I guess that the "search" facility can be used as well.

I any case I make a start by copying below today's comments on Nagasaki's 2 ongoing nominations - the Christian sites and the Meiji industrial ones - also Durian's interesting link regarding criticism of the way in which political/regional pressures play "large" in Japanese site selection!

Solivagant:
Durian:
Even Nagasaki already reduced its 26 serial components to only 13 sites.

If anyone is interested in which 13 Christian sites have been removed from the Nagasaki etc nomination they can be worked out from these 2 links
a. List of original 26 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churches_and_Christian_Sites_in_Nagasaki
b. List of remaining 13 -
http://www.pref.nagasaki.jp/s_isan/isan/list1.html

Nagsaki City itself seems to have lost most of its original sites and the nomination now concentrates on locations in the surrounding countryside. Luckily for those of us who have visited Nagaskai, Oura Cathedral Church remains on the list!!! Among those which have disappeared
a. Catholic Seminary - next to Oura Church but doesn't appear to have been included within it
b. Site of the Martyrdom - always a dodgy part as it consists solely of a modern memorial
c. Urakami Cathedral - a completely new structure (1959) on the site of the original
destroyred by the Atomic Bomb. Only a small part of the original has been rebuilt at the Epicentre memorial

Leaving aside the weaknesses of some of Nagasaki's Christian sites, I guess it intends getting some more anyway via the Meiji Industrial sites!! By the way - does anyone have more information of whether Japan is continuing to pursue "Battleship Island" for that nomination in the face of Korean (and other) opposition because of its "Slave Labour" history??


Durian:
Solivagant:
does anyone have more information of whether Japan is continuing to pursue "Battleship Island" for that nomination in the face of Korean (and other) opposition because of its "Slave Labour" history??


There are some public concern but not about Chineses and Korean slave labour but how to preserve it. Interestingly Japanese government want to inscribe maybe only the sea wall and production facilities to save cost and possibly to avoid controversial sites on the island like worker dorms. I'm not sure about underground mine, there are many sad stories about it, but the current shape of the mine was after WWII especially during Korean War, by Japanese Mitsubishi workers.

This news give some information about Nagasaki WHS quest
http://mainichi.jp/english/english/perspectives/news/20131208p2a00m0na001000c.html

Author winterkjm
Registered
#2 | Posted: 30 Apr 2014 06:05 
Durian:
Judging from previous serial nominations of Japan, the number of components of first nomination draft always greater than actual one

This makes sense, 28 components, Edo & Meiji era sites, and several locations throughout Japan is perhaps too broad. However, it would not be without precedent, as some European industrial WHS have numerous sites.

There are some fascinating sites included here. Furthermore, it has already been submitted to UNESCO. I do not know how they will approach Hashima island. Basically, three choices are possible.

1) Not include Hashima Island
2) Include the island, no change (100% focus on Meiji period)
3) Include the island, but state openly the use of forced labor during the Showa period

Author winterkjm
Registered
#3 | Posted: 30 Apr 2014 14:09 
winterkjm:
28 components

Official number of components is (23).

Author elsslots
Admin
#4 | Posted: 1 May 2014 13:42 | Edited by: elsslots 
Don't know if this has been shared yet, but this is a wonderful website about the Meiji Industrial TWHS

http://www.kyuyama.jp/e/kyushuyamaguchi/map.html

P.S.: now see that Solivagant discovered it already in Dec 2013. But it deserves a place in this topic.

Author Durian
Registered
#5 | Posted: 28 May 2014 03:46 | Edited by: Durian 

Author meltwaterfalls
Registered
#6 | Posted: 28 May 2014 11:55 
Durian:
If anybody go to Tomioka please try this.

Disappointingly (well for fans of Entomophagy anyway) they only seem to be Silkworm shaped, rather than containing any of them.

It reminded me of the gift my boss brought back from the Dolomites, these are shaped like specific mountains within the range, a nice WHS treat.

Author winterkjm
Registered
#7 | Posted: 2 Jun 2014 16:05 
Fairly comprehensive overview of the Meiji Industrial Sites nomination up for inscription in 2015.

http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0001322891

Author winterkjm
Registered
#8 | Posted: 6 Feb 2015 03:35 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Sites of Japan's Meiji Industrial Revolution

2844 pages of maps, buffer zones, statements of OUV, and site descriptions. While a hugely complex nomination (23 components over several provinces) which span from the 1850's to 1910, this nomination is almost a guarantee inscription. If not in 2015, perhaps a referral, I doubt ICOMOS will have difficulty in recognizing OUV. Indeed, recognizing Industrial Heritage outside Europe is a huge missing gap.

As part of the WHC, the Korean delegation I suspect will at least publicly state their objection to the inclusion of Hashima Island/Coal Mine as part of this serial nomination. They may just use this opportunity to highlight the horrible treatment of Korean Laborers during the war. The nomination dossier completely ignores the sites WWII History. Yet, lest we forget the nomination is called, "Sites of Japan's Meiji Industrial Revolution", so one can reasonably expect 1944-45 will not be comprehensively covered.

There are two pieces of information that might be contested by the Korean delegation. The frequent mention and focus on Hirobumi Ito in the nomination dossier, indeed Hagi Castle Town includes his old residence! For Koreans Hirobumi Ito is almost universally hated as a symbol of the annexation of Korea. Indeed, the nationalist that assasinated Hirobumi Ito is celebrated as a national hero. Second, this statement below on Mitsubishi and worker living conditions would strike most Korean, Chinese, and Western historians as entirely false when applied to the Korean/Chinese laborers brought to the island later on. Mitsubishi has been in court for much of the last 10 years facing several lawsuits for forced labor/unpaid wages during WWII. To be fair, Japan is specifically focused on the sites Meiji history, not particularly on periods after 1910.

"Mitsubishi invested heavily, not just in the development of the mine, but in a sustainable high quality standard of living for its workers and their families, far in advance of other industry in Japan at that time." - nomination file

Hopefully, this doesn't become a major point of contention at the 2015 WHC. Frankly, UNESCO already has more than enough problems with politicization. Moreover, the Sites of Japan's Meiji Industrial Revolution is a worthy nomination that certainly can demonstrate OUV. However, the realities of Korean - Japanese relations and current nationalistic fervor that exists in both countries may make some form of confrontation at the WHC inevitable.

Author winterkjm
Registered
#9 | Posted: 28 Mar 2015 07:54 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Japan has selected their 4 primary candidates for submission. One will be selected for 2017 shortly, while I assume the 2018 nomination will be one of these 4 sites.

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/social_affairs/AJ201503280042

Author Durian
Registered
#10 | Posted: 31 Mar 2015 05:35 | Edited by: Durian 
Korea slams Japan for seeking UNESCO listing for sites of forced labor

"there are media reports that the International Council on Monuments and Sites -- or ICOMOS -- said Japan's industrial facilities are qualified as a UNESCO World Heritage Site, upping Tokyo's chances." -- so the leak result of other site may come soon?

"And until then, the foreign ministry here in Seoul says it will continue its efforts to prevent the Japanese sites from receiving UNESCO recognition." -- oh! another dispute for UNESCO!

http://www.arirang.co.kr/News/News_View.asp?nseq=178079

Author meltwaterfalls
Registered
#11 | Posted: 1 Apr 2015 08:07 
I'm not really up on my Japanese industrial history, but as sites these do look pretty impressive. I didn't realise that Hashima Island was a place I already knew (it's in Skyfall and some other bits). It really does look incredible.

But have they really not made any mention of Korean forced labour? That seems very odd to me, but I don't really know my way around the issues that well.

Author winterkjm
Registered
#12 | Posted: 2 Apr 2015 13:26 | Edited by: winterkjm 
The dossier does not mention anything regarding forced labor, and barely mentions the sites history post-Meiji, except additional expansions of the island. As I mentioned previously, the working conditions are highlighted as exceptional for the 19th century.

"Mitsubishi invested heavily, not just in the development of the mine, but in a sustainable high quality standard of living for its workers and their families, far in advance of other industry in Japan at that time." - nomination file

Here is an article that targets 11 of 28 properties (official nomination is now 23) in the Meiji Nomination that allegedly used forced labor.

http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2015033109428

I am torn with this nomination, I do think there is OUV in this site, and this is a huge gap in the world heritage list. However, I think the nomination is too aligned with recent Nationalistic trends in Japan that make the nomination problematic if not addressed.

Author Durian
Registered
#13 | Posted: 27 Apr 2015 21:03 
More World Heritage sites vandalized in Japan

Very strange, WHS in Kyoto, Nara and Kii Mountain had been vandalized in some forms in the past recent months!

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-04/27/c_134189202.htm

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/social_affairs/AJ201504270045

Author Durian
Registered
#14 | Posted: 9 Jul 2015 23:45 | Edited by: Durian 
Another Possible Conflict of Japan-Korea?

One of Japan's potential 2017 WHS nomination, The Sado complex of heritage mines, primarily gold mines, also use almost 1000 Korean forced labours!!

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http %3A%2F%2Fwww.yomiuri.co.jp%2Fculture%2F20150706-OYT1T50005.html&edit-text=

Author winterkjm
Registered
#15 | Posted: 10 Jul 2015 00:46 | Edited by: winterkjm 
"Later the mines were sold to Mitsubishi Limited Partnership Company and came under private ownership." - UNESCO page description

Mitsubishi is currently being sued by hundred of former forced laborers. Sure, this might be another cause for serious negotiations with Korea (or China if its on the committee). However, if Japan does make an acceptable information center with accurate information on the full history of the Meiji sites (like they promised), when they make their report to the WHC in 2017, then more controversy might be avoided.

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