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Germany - World Heritage

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Author Assif
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#46 | Posted: 27 Jul 2014 16:56 
I am now going through the committee report regarding the German candidates for the T-list:
http://www.kmk.org/fileadmin/pdf/PresseUndAktuelles/2014/Abschlussbericht_Fachbeirat. pdf

A few of their recommendations:

1) Altona Jewish cemetery - should become a transnational nomination with Jodensavanne of Suriname, already on the T-list.

2) Schwerin and Neuschwanstein should consider a common nomination of historicist architecture.

3) Branitz was recommended as an extension to Bad Muskau.

4) Weissensee Jewish cemetery is recommended to be included in the serial nomination of Ashkenazi Jewish cemteries (probably with Hamburg and Jodensavanne).

5) Berlin's Hansaviertel and Karl-Marx-Allee are criticised for the quality of the dossier and not for the lack of OUV. Possible resubmission.

6) Hamburg observatory is recommended a transnational nomination with the observatory in La Plata, Argentina, not on T-list.

7) For Altes Land the committee leaves the door open for a transnational nomination of Dutch rural fruit-growing settlements along the Baltic Coast (with the Netherlands and Poland).

8) Buchenwald is rejected due to Unesco's decision not to inscribe further properties similar to Auschwitz in order to avoid comparative studies in this issue.

9) Leipzig, Halberstadt and Bad Doberan are all rejected for being too intangible.

10) Extensions to Speyer and Zollverein are rejected.

11) The inclusion in the transnational nomination of Great Spas of Europe is recommended for both Baden-Baden and Wiesbaden. The other candidates (Bad Ems, Bad Kissingen, Bad Homburg) were not submitted for this evaluation.

12) The extensions to Witternberg and Eisleben as well as Bauhaus in Weimar and Dessau are both recommended to become boundary modification and name change.

Author Solivagant
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#47 | Posted: 28 Jul 2014 02:57 | Edited by: Solivagant 
A considerable reliance on transnational nominations
a. Jewish cemetery with Surinam
b. Hamburg Observatory with La Plata Argentina
c. Altes Land with NL/Poland fruit areas
d. Baden Baden with other European spas

I have done only a bit of Googling and may well lack knowledge but a number of these potential trans-national pairings/triplings don't on the face of it seem to have a close linkage other than in general subject matter. E.g I can find no obvious reason for linking an observatory in Hamburg with one in La Plata - the latter was founded on the initiative of an American with help from France - a totally different history from that of Hamburg. If the aim were to put together a series encapsulating the "History" of, say, 19th C observatories, then a rather different set would seem to be required in order to establish an OUV which all parts contribute to?.

But Germany has done rather "well" to date from Transboundary nominations - particularly by riding on the coat tails of other countries either by coming in with extensions to existing sites from other countries or by being a "lesser" partner in another country's initiative (and thus not "using up" its annual nomination rights!). With 5 transboundary sites out of 39 (Muskau, Frontiers, Wadden, Beech, Pile dwell) it already has more than any other country (Italy - 4. France, Spain, Switz, Pol, Russ, Ukr - 3). And its T List of 8 contains another 3 (Danevirke, Erzgebirge, Le Corbusier).

There seems to be a common thread here in Germany's WHS policy that transboundary is a good way to go - but some of the suggestions of this Committee seem rather tenuous!

Author Durian
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#48 | Posted: 28 Jul 2014 10:36 
Solivagant:
I can find no obvious reason for linking an observatory in Hamburg with one in La Plata


http://www.denkmalstiftung.de/docs/isi_doc/tentativlistentext_hamburger_sternwarte_sh ort_engl.pdf?PHPSESSID=484af395365d06bfb817bfbf487b9099

The OUV document for tentative list can help you! "The observatory that shows the highest degree of similarity with the Hamburg Observatory is the La Plata Observatory, Argentina, built between 1883 and 1894. It is characterised by a representative architecture and was one of the first in the world that was designed as an ensemble of buildings. In the port city of Buenos Aires, too, it was the requirement of time service and support of navigation that determined both the equipment with instruments and the scientific work at the observatory that is situated to the south of the city. But like in Hamburg, in addition to the traditional instruments used for classical astronomy – two meridian circles (of which one was manufactured by Repsold), a transit instrument, a zenith telescope and a 43 cm refractor – a large reflector telescope (80 cm) and a 33 cm astrograph were set up there so that astrophysical investigations could be performed as well. Similarly and like the Hamburg Observatory, the observatory in Buenos Aires continues to be an active university research institute. It is in a remarkably good state of preservation. Because of these similarities, it is suggested to prepare a serial transnational nomination for both observatories. The Argentinian government has declared its willingness to file a joint submission together with Hamburg." or to be short "Too similar, hard to make OUV in comparative study, better to combine them!"

Author Khuft
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#49 | Posted: 28 Jul 2014 15:34 
Solivagant:
A considerable reliance on transnational nominations


Seems like a ploy to get more sites inscribed. I like the way the report suggests that some sites take a step back and apply "under the auspices" (unter der Federführung) of another party - i.e. let another country get into the trouble of coordinating it all and making the case to ICOMOS / WHC, and get a new WHS all the same (while in addition appearing to be humble and polite). Emblematic of German foreign policy in general, I'd say!

Author Solivagant
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#50 | Posted: 28 Jul 2014 15:37 | Edited by: Solivagant 
Khuft:
under the auspices" (unter der Federführung)

As I said, using a different English idiom!
Solivagant:
riding on the coat tails of other countries

Author winterkjm
Registered
#51 | Posted: 15 May 2015 21:52 | Edited by: winterkjm 
Fairly sharp reprimand by ICOMOS concerning Naumburg. Inscribe, Deferral, and a Not Inscribe for Germany this year. I don't think they'll persuade the WHC with the Viking nomination, but who knows for sure. Three nominations for 2016 as well!

"Additionally, the European Early and High Middle Ages
are already well represented on the World Heritage List
through several properties, many of which are also located
in Germany (see comparative analysis section). In this
regard, ICOMOS recalls the aim, objectives and
commitments set up by the World Heritage Committee
through the Global Strategy for a Representative,
Balanced and Credible World Heritage List launched in
1994, the outcomes of the independent evaluation of
UNESCO's External Auditor and the related subsequent
Committee decisions."


Interestingly, Germany will have completely exhausted its previous Tentative List in 2016 (3 nominations), and with its recent new tentative list (13 nominations) will be able to nominate sites for 2017 and well beyond. At this 2015 WHC, Germany will surpass 40 World Heritage Sites. Germany and France will now join Italy, China, and Spain as the countries with more than 40 inscriptions. All have current and extensive tentative lists, though Germany's is a great deal shorter than its counterparts.

Author meltwaterfalls
Registered
#52 | Posted: 7 Jul 2015 19:01 
I think I'm right in saying that with the addition of the Speicherstadt and Kontorhaus district every German länder now has a WHS. Impressive work especially as the one that completes the set is a pretty worthy site (unlike a couple of the more recent additions).

I would like to think that this may let Germany slow down its rate of inscription, focus on some new and innovative proposals and use its extensive expertise and resources to help less well represented countries developed viable candidates. I won't hold my breath on that though. Still I love the country and the prospect of some slightly dull low hanging fruit in terms of easy WHS will keep me coming back. Therefore I guess I'm just perpetuating the problem by encouraging sites to gain inscription and increase tourist footfall.

Author Durian
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#53 | Posted: 7 Jul 2015 19:58 | Edited by: Durian 
meltwaterfalls:
I think I'm right in saying that with the addition of the Speicherstadt and Kontorhaus district every German länder now has a WHS

No, Hamburg already has 1 WHS before the Speicherstadt. The Hamburg Wadden Sea NP is a part of WHS Wadden Sea. This NP is an exclave of Hamburg.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg_Wadden_Sea_National_Park

and I don't think this will stop or slow Germany. In my idea there will be some kind of competition between number of WHS between Landers. And big landers like Saxony, Schleswig Holstein or Mecklenburg still only has 1 cultural WHS, I think they want more.

Author meltwaterfalls
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#54 | Posted: 10 Jul 2015 06:28 | Edited by: meltwaterfalls 
Thanks for that Durian, I had no idea Hamburg had an exclave.

And no I doubt the rate of inscription chasing will slow down either.

Author winterkjm
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#55 | Posted: 10 Jul 2015 06:43 
meltwaterfalls:
And no I doubt the rate of inscription chasing will slow down either.

But will the level of success change? Germany was 1 for 3 this year, not particularly good.

Author nfmungard
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#56 | Posted: 12 Jul 2015 14:28 
Durian:
No, Hamburg already has 1 WHS before the Speicherstadt. The Hamburg Wadden Sea NP is a part of WHS Wadden Sea. This NP is an exclave of Hamburg.

Hamburg the federal state had a site. Hamburg the city hadn't. Personally, being from Hamburg, I would say Speicherstadt is the first WHS.

Author nfmungard
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#57 | Posted: 12 Jul 2015 14:31 
winterkjm:
But will the level of success change? Germany was 1 for 3 this year, not particularly good.

Depends on how you see it. Germany still succeeds at inscribing sites. Even though I would say that the country is thoroughly covered by now.

Author Khuft
Registered
#58 | Posted: 23 Feb 2016 18:47 | Edited by: Khuft 
Just came across the following doc (in German, unfortunately), published by Icomos Germany in 2011. Sorry if someone else already posted it here somewhere. Interestingly, it discusses ways to expand Germany's WHL tally by secondary measures, such as - as mentioned above - piggybacking on existing nominations (e.g. the Vizcaya bridge in Bilbao - seems like Germany has one too, though they suggest that a few British ones and one in Buenos Aires be added as well for good measure). Lots of stuff on possible industrial sites (the Ruhr area is combed through, as is the less important Saarland area for the less glamorous European Heritage label). Extensions of existing sites are also analysed (eg for Potsdam, Muskau, Völklingen).

Some of the sites discussed here have reappeared in the later discussions - such as the Hamburg Observatory, and the Jewis cemeteries.

My favourite article of all (skimmed most, only, but this one I had to read) is the one on Soviet / Stalinist heritage (such as the "Seven Sisters" in Moscow) - the author recognizes the glaring omission of this type of architecture on the WHL but recommens a serial approach covering not only the former Soviet Union but also Warsaw, as well as Hungary, Romania, the Czech Republic (where they have already contacted their partners) and - you guessed it - Germany! With Berlin (Soviet War monuments, Russian (former Soviet) embassy, Karl Marx Allee), as well as the post-war ensembles of Leipzig, Magdeburg, Rostock and Dresden...

http://www.icomos.de/pdf/EHL_WHL_final.pdf

Author pikkle
Registered
#59 | Posted: 9 Mar 2016 01:01 
I'll be in Germany for the Leipzig Buchmesse (Book Fair), but have decided to extend my visit a bit before and after the fair. I'll be using the DB Bahn to travel from Frankfurt to Leipzig with an overnight stop in Fulda to break up the trip. So 1 night Fulda, 3 Leipzig (I'll mostly use my afternoons when I have time after work-related stuff at the fair to visit some Lutherstadts and Luther sites in the area that I missed last time I was in the area, also Halle), 3 Erfurt, and 2 Dresden, before ICE back to Frankfurt. I have been to Germany several times but always in the summer, so my main question is twofold: While in Erfurt, I was wondering about visiting Hainach NP (Primeval Beech Forests). #1 Is this site worth visiting? It looks somewhat interesting and even beautiful - but I come from part of the U.S. where we have plenty of deciduous and even primeval forests. #2 What would it be like around March 20-21st? The weather looks to be in the high 40s/50s during the daytime and 30s at night. If these numbers are accurate not just models, I would expect it to be somewhat stark. Which can be beautiful, if the flora is just starting to come to life. What can I expect weather-wise in Thuringia/Hesse during the period of the 15th-25th?

So, I'm just looking for a bit of guidance as to whether I should go out of my way to visit Hainach. I understand the Beech forest sites will likely be in every European country soon, but I am legitimately interested in the site not just as a "tick."

I am also contemplating a day-long train excursion from Dresden into the German portion of the Erzgebirge. I was thinking Dresden-Freiburg-Marienburg-Annaberg/Buchholz. Schneeburg looks wonderful but a bit out of the way for a day trip. Are there any other stops that you all would recommend that could be done feasibly as part of such a route? These towns and the landscape particularly interests me, especially the architecture, which in many ways is kind of the equivalent of "wool towns" in the Netherlands and England where great monuments were built from the local profits during the same period. Annaberg's Gothic-Renaissance transition kirche is something I have read about in architecture books for years and is something I'd love to see in person.
I'd appreciate any advice that anyone can offer!

There are some other sites I may revisit to experience them during a different period of the year, but I'm also on the lookout for some non-T listed or WH-listed sites that anyone can offer as particularly interesting. Italy, France, etc. have the "most beautiful villages" program, but Germany just has the tourist trails. I know Arnstadt (Bachstadt!) gets mentioned but is there anywhere else I should take note of? There aren't many English-language guides to the former East German Lands, so other than anything UNESCO "affiliated," or particularly touristified, I would love some advice on charming small towns or cities. I apologize for how lengthy this has become, but as I stated, I'd love some advice - some stuff kind of came to mind as I was writing. Thanks!

Author meltwaterfalls
Registered
#60 | Posted: 9 Mar 2016 08:28 
You may be interested in this thread, we went around the area in January and had a lovely time.

In regards to Hainach, we had an unexpectedly magical visit there, though this was entirely due to the circumstances of our visit and the unique snowfall we encountered. March may start to show the start of spring colours, but probably may be a little underwhelming.
Unless you have your own transport it may prove difficult to get to the WHS inscribed core of the site. The more accessible tree top walk isn't actually in the WHS, you may be able to hike into the core zone from there though. Unless you have a particular desire to see it then it would probably be one I would skip (I won't judge you if you go there, we did and that is the joy of this hobby). If you are there, then you will be close to Eisenach where Wartburg Castle is.

I liked Erfurt, impressively situated cathedral and the bridge is nice, plus it is in the area of the tentative World Heritage site, which is pretty underwhelming, but perhaps worth a visit. On the bridge is a magnificent Chocolate shop and Ice Cream parlour, which I wouldn't skip.

In regards to the Erzgebirge, we had a nice time driving around. Freiburg was my favourite place up there. But that is perhaps more because I am interested in urban sites than industrial aspects. There were some nice looking museums explaining the industrial aspects, but they were all closed when we visited (right after New Year). If you do end up there I will give a hat tip to Stadtwirtschaft a wonderful half Czech half German pub.
Annaberg-Buchholz didn't grab me as much but we only had a quick and very cold visit. We also visited Seiffen, which was very touristy, but fulfilled our Christmas decoration requirements perfectly.

That weather seems about right (had to run it through a converter as my Fahrenheit knowledge is pretty patchy.)

Don't skimp on time in Dresden either, it may not be a WHS any more, but it is one of Central Europe's finest cities and the museums are excellent.

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